Inaccurate performance data for BOB fighters in COD comparing to RL data

[Crumpp]

But if you were in a Squadron you were operational.

NO, almost every military cycle their units especially during wartime. All units need time to rest, refit, and train as well as perform other administrative duties as required.

In the United State Army for example, you have green, amber, and red cycles. Red is downtime for rest, refit, and administrative duties like funeral details and post clean up. Amber is training time and preparation for becoming an operational unit. Green is operational.

Dowding definitely cycled Fighter Command during the Battle of Britain.

There was no rest and refit.

No, there was a rotation and squadrons were allowed to rest and refit.

[Crumpp]

It's like buying a DVD player isn't it. You get your instruction manual as part of the package and it does what it says in the instructions.

Not really other than both come with instructions. Nobody cares if you don't follow the instructions on your DvD player.

In Aviation, not following the publications carries the weight of law.

[Crumpp]

how 16 squadrons got through over 50,000 tons of aviation

It has all been explained to you before in this thread. You just did not bother to try and understand it. You would rather sling insults.

Go back and read it if you are interested. I would be glad to discuss it with you.

If you are not interested in going back and reading it, I am not interested in re-explaining it to you.

[winny]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Not really other than both come with instructions. Nobody cares if you don't follow the instructions on your DvD player.

In Aviation, not following the publications carries the weight of law.

This is also wrong. The publication is over-ridden by orders and by leaflets issued by the Air Ministry
If you bother to read the first page of your pilot's notes you'll notice that it states this very clearly.

Anything else you want to make up off the top of your head?

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by winny

This is also wrong. The publication is over-ridden by orders and by leaflets issued by the Air Ministry
If you bother to read the first page of your pilot's notes you'll notice that it states this very clearly.

This.

[winny]

Also seeing as this seems to now be a discussion that hinges on what an operational squadron is..

Operational squadrons by Group
14th July 1940
10 Group 2 Hurricane 2 Spitfire
11 Group 12 Hurricane 7 Spitfire
12 Group 6 Hurricane 5 Spitfire
13 Group 5 Hurricane 5 Spitfire
Total 25 Hurricane sqn. 19. Spitfire sqn.

1st September 1940
10 Gp Hu-4 Sp-4
11 Gp Hu-14 Sp-6
12 Gp Hu-6 Sp-6
13 Gp Hu-9 Sp-2
Total Hu-33 Sp 18

30th September
10 Gp Hu-6 Sp-3
11 Gp Hu-13 Sp-7
12 Gp Hu-6 Sp-6
13 Gp Hu-9* Sp-3
*includes 2 half strength squadrons (they were still operational)
Total Hu-34 Sp-19

28th October
10 Gp Hu-6 Sp-3
11 Gp Hu-13 Sp-8
12 Gp Hu-7 Sp-6
13 Gp Hu-7* Sp-3
*includes 1 part strength squadron
Total Hu-33 Sp-20

[winny]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

NO, almost every military cycle their units especially during wartime. All units need time to rest, refit, and train as well as perform other administrative duties as required.

You are wrong.

Find me one example of an RAF fighter Squadron that was rested, pulled out of the front line for training, or for 'administration purposes' during the Battle of Britian. The only reason a squadron was 'rested' was because most of the pilots were dead.

They were not being rotated out for the reasons you state. They were moved to another active group. Almost without exception.

Just because you say it happened dosn't mean it did. Read Al Deers account of what hapened to his squadron, or Pete Brothers or Geoff Wellum or Baders, or Lane or Hillary or Viggors or Page or Malan or Townsend or Dundas. I've read them all and none of them were made non operational during the Battle of Britian.

They kept going till they died or broke down.

[Crumpp]

Air Chief Marshal Hugh Dowding had been the driving force behind the development of Britain’s air defences in the immediate pre war period. He had organised and overseen the the integration of radar within the RAF command structure and had championed the development of both the Hurricane and the Spitfire. When war came he had warned Churchill not to lose valuable fighter resources in the defence of France. During the Battle of Britain itself he had carefully managed the fighter Squadrons available and had worked tirelessly to respond to the various changing threats from the Luftwaffe. He had the strategic oversight to see the need for always keeping a proportion of fighters in reserve and the necessity of rotating Squadrons so that some could be ‘rested’ and fresh pilots brought into the battle successively. It was his supreme organisational abilities that put the RAF in the best possible position to combat the Germans.

http://ww2today.com/24th-november-19...d-from-the-raf

It was part of Dowding's strategy to keep all his groups intact as far as possible, rarely committing more than a minority of his force, rotating squadrons regularly but never denuding any one group.

http://www.battleofbritain1940.net/document-21.html

Although squadrons were being rotated around the country, with battered units being withdrawn to the North to rest and the fresher squadrons moving from north to south, the pilots were becoming increasingly worn out.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/thebattleofbritain.cfm

Altogether 16 squadrons were withdrawn from 11 Group in the one month between August 8 and September 8, 1940.

http://helena-schrader.com/bob.html

[fruitbat]

Rested in a quieter sector ie not 11 group and withdrawn totally from ops are not the same thing.....

[winny]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

http://ww2today.com/24th-november-19...d-from-the-raf



http://www.battleofbritain1940.net/document-21.html



http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/thebattleofbritain.cfm



http://helena-schrader.com/bob.html

They were moved to other operational Groups! All of them.

Find me a squadron that was moved to a non-operational Airfield.

From memory I think the only squadron that was actually withdrawn was 54 squadron - mainly because nearly everybody was dead! (this is probably why the number of Spitfire Squadrons in 11 group went down by 1 between July and September)