luthier, the historical performance btw 109/spitfire/huricane is NOT simulated in CoD

[kendo65]

Originally Posted by 335th_GRAthos

...

In the game: YES! Because if I am high, I will decide when and where to engage, otherwise I just disengage and go away. Even if I engage, I can always chose to disengage, climb and get away from the battle.
If I stay low, I die (it is an option but it is still my decision)


I repeat my point: As long as I decide when I engage and when I disengage a fight, I rule.
Is it historical fact that the Bf109 can do that? I think it is!
(at least I never saw anybody of those people who posted million of pages from archives regarding planes' performance during the past ten years at Ubi-zoo and here, ever claiming otherwise).

One problem with that view is that historically one of the main aims of the German offensive was the destruction of RAF fighters - in some ways the Luftwaffe bombers were the bait to bring the RAF up so that the 109s could get at them.

There are many instances of pure German fighter sweeps flying happily over England with the RAF refusing to engage.

On the other hand the primary goal of the RAF was destruction of Luftwaffe bombers or the breaking up of the raids. When the RAF fighters were committed against the bombers the 109s had little choice about whether to engage or not, even if they found themselves in a disadvantageous position. (which they usually didn't)

[robtek]

The serious intention to protect the bombers could imo only be reached by a server sided evaluation system, giving points for kills only in relation to bombers survived/targets destroyed for blue and bombers downed/targets saved for red.

This might lead also to more sophisticated tactics, like to lure the fighter cover away before the Hurris arrive, or fighter wings flying in bomber-style formations and speeds.

[335th_GRAthos]

Originally Posted by kendo65

One problem with that view is that historically one of the main aims of the German offensive was the destruction of RAF fighters - in some ways the Luftwaffe bombers were the bait to bring the RAF up so that the 109s could get at them.

Hi Ataros,

There is no problem with the view. This is the tactical advantage of the Bf109. And in an on-line game the reds get to feel the heat.

As far as the historic truth is concerned you were right, that was Luftwaffe's aim.
Why Luftwaffe failed, because the monthly production of planes was higher than the attrition rate; Which was one of the miracles of the UK production facilities.
Luftwaffe destroyed two times the amount of enemy planes they thought RAF was in possesion off and RAF kept coming...

~S~

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by 335th_GRAthos

Why Luftwaffe failed, because the monthly production of planes was higher than the attrition rate; Which was one of the miracles of the UK production facilities.
Luftwaffe destroyed two times the amount of enemy planes they thought RAF was in possesion off and RAF kept coming...

The reason the LW failed was that the British kept calm and carried on.

[335th_GRAthos]

Originally Posted by Robo.

The reason the LW failed was that the British kept calm and carried on.

Hmmm... historicaly inacurate assumption (pressumption)

Hadn't that stupid German bomber pilot dropped his bombs in the town (due to navigational error), thus causing the RAF bomber raid to Berlin, thus causing Hitler to order the bombardment of the British towns (instead of the industry and airfields), you would probably be speaking German as first language now...


And hadn't the Greeks kicked the Italian army thus obliging Hitler to invade Greece and have his airborne division massacred in the battle of Crete, probably the Russians would be speaking German, too...


irrespective how well the Spitfire turned (or didn't).

~S~

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by 335th_GRAthos

Hmmm... historicaly inacurate assumption (pressumption)

Hadn't that stupid German bomber pilot dropped his bombs in the town (due to navigational error), thus causing the RAF bomber raid to Berlin, thus causing Hitler to order the bombardment of the British towns (instead of the industry and airfields), you would probably be speaking German as first language now...

Wrong.

Originally Posted by 335th_GRAthos

And hadn't the Greeks kicked the Italian army thus obliging Hitler to invade Greece and have his airborne division massacred in the battle of Crete, probably the Russians would be speaking German, too...

Wrong.

Originally Posted by 335th_GRAthos

irrespective how well the Spitfire turned (or didn't).

~S~

Agreed.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by 335th_GRAthos

Hmmm... historicaly inacurate assumption (pressumption)

I ment it rather as a joke. But you got to get the British credit for their stoic determination, stubborn resistance... and guts. And for how they didn't allow the bloody Luftwaffe to win the battle.

Originally Posted by 335th_GRAthos

Hadn't that stupid German bomber pilot dropped his bombs in the town (due to navigational error), thus causing the RAF bomber raid to Berlin, thus causing Hitler to order the bombardment of the British towns (instead of the industry and airfields), you would probably be speaking German as first language now...

Oh so what was that dude's name. I'd like to thank him personally for losing the war for Germans. Thank you very much, Helmut, danke vielmals!

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by 335th_GRAthos

Hmmm... historicaly inacurate assumption (pressumption)

Hadn't that stupid German bomber pilot dropped his bombs in the town (due to navigational error), thus causing the RAF bomber raid to Berlin, thus causing Hitler to order the bombardment of the British towns (instead of the industry and airfields), you would probably be speaking German as first language now...


And hadn't the Greeks kicked the Italian army thus obliging Hitler to invade Greece and have his airborne division massacred in the battle of Crete, probably the Russians would be speaking German, too...


irrespective how well the Spitfire turned (or didn't).

~S~

You seriously believe this? You are practically a sympathiser.....


For serious historians though please vote:
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/174

[335th_GRAthos]

Originally Posted by Osprey

You seriously believe this? You are practically a sympathiser.....

WOW WOW WOW Baby!

Part of my family died in Crete defending my country against the nazis.

So you better wash your frigging brain, twice, before posting insults like that!

And read some more history and understand it instead of playing games, wondering how many octanes your Hurricane needs so that you do not get kicked.

~S~

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein

[Nephris]

Groundhog Day again ....
These threads are as old as Il2 birthday.
I see them come I see them leave and I am pretty sure my grandchildren will reads those threads too.

The point is there will never be an agreement on what is historrical ,what is correct. You present Data 1 from date x.x.1940, I present you Data 2 from y.y.1940.

At then end leave the job to the dev team, do constructive critism and maybe parts of that will influence the development.
But for now there are much more important things than FM to fix in the game.
Be thankful the game kept & keeps developing, instead fading to black after a catastrophic release and wait for things to come.

Further more you are talking about things you just read and never tested yourself, patience is a virtue.

Finally you cant satisfy each player, this isnt a perfect world we are living in.
So if things should really happen that bad, as you paint it, I would look forward to take the challenge in fighting vs a plane that "shall" perform better.

Sissyfiregirls or Luftwhiners .... so what?
At the multiplayer end, a server admin or map creator is responsible to balance sides.