Allied Versus Russian Aircraft During WWII

[Volksieg]

I don't think the idea of the Western and Soviet forces clashing is as far fetched a "what if" scenario as some may seem to think.

Stalin was always incredibly critical of Western Democracy and the capitalist system which, understandably, played a major part in the non-aggression pact with the National Socialist regime. During the early stages of Nazi rule, the more radical groups (Essentially, as crazy as it sounds: The left wing Nazis... the Socialist element within NS) within the NSDAP called for more than just a non-aggression pact and, in communication with Trotsky at the time, even tried to form an alliance of sorts with Communist Russia..... of course these ideas were stamped out rather dramatically by the Hitler supporters within the party with the "Night of the Long Knives" resulting in Otto Strasser, upon hearing of the execution of his brother Gregor, forming the Black Front and going into hiding having been declared public enemy No. 1 by Hitler and pursued constantly by the SS and Gestapo.

Of course, we all know what happened to Trotsky in the end.

General Patton was also no fan of his Soviet allies, comparing them to "Mongolian Bandits". He also expressed a certain sadness, later on, that the Allies didn't march straight through Berlin and into Moscow.

On May 7th 1945, whilst in communication with US secretary of War Robert Patterson, Patton said the following:

"Let's keep our boots polished, bayonets sharpened, and present a picture of force and strength to the Red Army. This is the only language they understand and respect."

When challenged, Patton responded:

".....we have had a victory over the Germans and disarmed them, but we have failed in the liberation of Europe; we have lost the war!"

As you can see from the above.... war with the Soviet Union was actually far from unimaginable. I would go so far as to say it's actually surprising it didn't happen.

Of course, instead, we got the Cold War.

..... and Rocky 4 LMAO

[addman]

Originally Posted by Volksieg

I don't think the idea of the Western and Soviet forces clashing is as far fetched a "what if" scenario as many seem to think.

Stalin was always incredibly critical of Western Democracy and the capitalist system which, understandably, played a major part in the non-aggression pact with the National Socialist regime. During the early stages of Nazi rule, the more radical groups (Essentially, as crazy as it sounds: The left wing Nazis... the Socialist element within NS) within the NSDAP called for more than just a non-aggression pact and, in communication with Trotsky at the time, even tried to form an alliance of sorts with Communist Russia..... of course these ideas were stamped out rather dramatically by the Hitler supporters within the party with the "Night of the Long Knives" resulting in Otto Strasser, upon hearing of the execution of his brother Gregor, forming the Black Front and going into hiding having been declared public enemy No. 1 by Hitler and pursued constantly by the SS and Gestapo.

Of course, we all know what happened to Trotsky in the end.

General Patton was also no fan of his Soviet allies, comparing them to "Mongolian Bandits". He also expressed a certain sadness, later on, that the Allies didn't march straight through Berlin and into Moscow.

On May 7th 1945, whilst in communication with US secretary of War Robert Patterson, Patton said the following:

"Let's keep our boots polished, bayonets sharpened, and present a picture of force and strength to the Red Army. This is the only language they understand and respect."

When challenged, Patton responded:

".....we have had a victory over the Germans and disarmed them, but we have failed in the liberation of Europe; we have lost the war!"

As you can see from the above.... war with the Soviet Union was actually far from unimaginable. I would go so far as to say it's actually surprising it didn't happen.

Of course, instead, we got the Cold War.

..... and Rocky 4 LMAO

[Volksieg]

[Richie]

4) Allies didn't face the best german pilots since BoB. Also germany itself was poorly defended by minor Luftwaffe forces. Making conclusions based on fights when luftwaffe was outnumbered even worse than on the eastern front is not helping either.




Forgetting North Africa.

[Rumcajs]

Originally Posted by Richie

Forgetting North Africa.

Ok you are right. The point was that main german forces were alocated to the eastern front. So drawing conclusions of air superiority based on results of fighting luftwaffe in 1943 - 1945 is misleading. The Russians in 1945 were much stronger opponent than the Germans during the last three years of WWII.
We play this "what if" game here so i ask you a question.
Q: As the Western Allies would react if their losses skyrocketed up? Would they be able to bear hundred thousand killed within a month?

[adonys]

yes, it already happened before during WWI