Cliffs of Dover, a Year Later

[Aty2]

thanks for the product came out before the date, 1c was able to raise money to complete the process, or they think it not to be so today you would have the game in your hands

people no longer remember the repeated phrase, "two weeks"

So I see

Byer

[David Hayward]

Originally Posted by JG52Krupi

Adonys is correct I am sure Oleg, Luthier and Co would definitely wanted to release a finished product, you can't defend a half broken game...

I'm sure they would. Of course, that does not change the fact that complicated software is never optimized at release.

[adonys]

Originally Posted by David Hayward

Complicated applications are never optimized at initial release. How long have you been programming?

your logic is flawed.. to say at least.

and, I've started learning programming by learning assembly for the Z80 microprocessor in 1985. I've also graduated and IT University in 2002. We're in 2012, so, it's around 25 years.. give or take I'm also working in game development industry from 2002, as lead game designer and senior producer. those are another 10 years

and you? how long have you been programming? or working in game developing industry? and in which position?

you're completely out of reason, and obviously don't have any kind of expertise in this field. you're just trolling!

IL2CoD it is NOT the most complicated game out-there. Or the one having the best graphics engine, or renderer.

This 100% performance increase (and assuming it's measured on the same hardware.. but otherwise it would have been misleading to advertise it as so) can only come from actually coding a render engine in a proper way, which implies that the previous render was coded in an amateurish way.

You can not call "optimization" a render engine 100% performance increase rewrite, but.. bug-fixing!

[Ataros]

Originally Posted by adonys

IL2CoD it is NOT the most complicated game out-there.

Do you mean only graphics engine or modelling of technical details as well? I do not play all the games on the market and can not say for sure but I have not seen more complex games in terms of technical modelling like different cooling, braking or fuel systems for different planes, various instruments and controls operations, damage effects on systems of each different plane, etc., etc.

E.g. ArmA is a complex game and has a lot of different equipment but IMO it does not go into this much details that means it is less complicated to me. MS FS may be more complicated in some areas but it does not do damage modelling. DCS is very advanced but it does not deal with different systems of different aircraft - only one per release. Could you name games which are more complicated in technical detail, please, if you mean this kind of complexity?

I think technical complexity can course bugs and performance bottle-necks when so many pieces are put together, especially if the team is small and many developers were replaced during development period. Of cause there could be better development or management practices in other countries but they make development too expensive for flight sim market. Otherwise WWII flightsims would be developed in EU, USA, etc. No one does it for a reason - there is not enough financing to make a good successful product. Let's hope 1C does not quit soon.

Originally Posted by adonys

Actually, graphic engine features must be planned and codded right from the start, to have them integrated from the beginning. It's faster and safer this way.

I hope they had enough resources and time for this when they rushed rework of the engine last year. Luthier mentioned in the update that they work in constant stress situation for more than a year already. Stress is not the best friend for planning and thinking in advance. We call it "fire-fighting work mode" here, when there is no time to think Sad but true. Initial mistakes and then 2008 crisis, 2009 Softclub merger, 2010 separation with Oleg and forced early 2011 release did not help to work according to original plans either I guess.

[Sutts]

Originally Posted by adonys

IL2CoD it is NOT the most complicated game out-there. Or the one having the best graphics engine, or renderer.

Yes, I'd like to hear your idea of a more complicated game too. I really don't think there is one out there. All the FPS games are no where near as complicated under the hood. On top of the incredible internal and external object models there's the flight model, ground physics model, damage model, systems model, ballistics model, atmospheric model including lighting (to be expanded when resources allow) and incredible landscape detail over a huge area. The way the sun rises and sets, even the stars at night are correct.

The attention to detail in CloD can be easy to overlook but should not be ignored. Modern shooters like Battlefield have nice looking figures running around a very detailed environment but the code behind the scenes is still far simpler than what CloD is trying to achieve and the maps are tiny in comparison.

[David Hayward]

Originally Posted by adonys

IL2CoD it is NOT the most complicated game out-there. Or the one having the best graphics engine, or renderer.

This is called a Straw Man fallacy.

I never said that it was the MOST complicated, nor did I say that it has the best graphics engine. I said that "complicated software is never optimized at release." The logic in that statement is solid. I've been employed as a programmer since 1986.

You probably should not use logical fallacies when you are criticizing someone else's logic.

[Heliocon]

Luthier, thank you for this post, I believe it is what many people here have been waiting a long time for. If there are problems that need to be fixed I think everyone understands, but as often we have had the "next week it will be out" or "NASA we have a problem" type posts from the devs/community manager it leaves everyone in a lurch as to the nature of the difficulty. IMO I prefer one these updates over 4 months of updates that really say nothing about what is happening in the studio; this is the type of dialogue the community needs!

Thank you for the update, I hope you can continue to keep us informed similarly in the future, and we all look forward to seeing the fruits of your labour.

Cheers!