I'll just LOVE it NOW

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

2) Apparently you are un-aware and or don't remember what RoF was like when it first came out.. RoF like CoD was not a bugless sim when it was released back in 2009.. It took Neoqb years to get RoF into the state it is today.. And during that time Neoqb gout bought out by 777 studios! So, imho it is disingenuous of you to compare CoD which has been out for less than a year to a game that has been out for nearly 3 years. And try to remember that RoF has a near constant cash flow due to charging for add ones!! Where as CoD does not! Currently the only CoD can generate more development money is to produce a sequel/addon or find someone willing to invest in the product. Which explains why CoD is allready working on a sequal

So now that you are up to speed on RoF I hope you can understand why RoF works so well on lower end systems.. i.e. RoF has had more time and more money to optimize the code and RoF is still a DX9 game thus unless they upgrade to the DX11 API you will never see the DX11 features in RoF that we are soon to see in CoD.. Now 1C could have done the same as Neoqb.. It would have been easier to do.. But as we are now seeing.. 1C has had a much bigger vision for this game engine than Neoqb had for RoF

My superhero. Im not in ROF boat. I gave em hard time when deserved. I know its DX9 but it looks very nice dont you think? Yes it had problems with stutters (on some rigs) but they solved that in less than a year (do-you-copy?) ROF still has some very advanced features which CLOD doesnt, like dynamic cloud shadows, realistic sun glare, realistic rain drops, much better DOT system (cant cheat with lower res), posibility to extinguish engine fire in dive and so many things which i cant rem right now.

Originally Posted by Ataros

This engine was not developed for resolutions higher than 1920x1080. Let's hope a patch can help or we have to wait till 2013-2015 videocards for extreme (higher than fullHD) res. Nothing comes for free. Resolution neither.Clouds, weather and landscape improvements in BoM will put new hardware to its knees again on extreme resolutions. The devs optimise for mainstream resolution only because further optimisation for extreme resolutions is too costly in terms of resources used and image quality hit.Solution is to use mainstream resolution or buy a new top video card every 6 - 12 months if you are rich. Sims are more demanding than any shooters due to high visibility distances and modelling detail.

Ataros, LOL, 1920x1200 isnt an insane resolution in 21st century...anyways I didnt gain much going from this to 1680x1050....I tried that too, I was a beta tester so I know all the tricks...

Why is so hard for you to admit what devs admit...its a bad, bad code...period

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by Tvrdi

My superhero.

Ah shucks.. Well super is a bit much IMHO.. But I am glad to hear you agree with me just the same! S!

[ATAG_Bliss]

Originally Posted by Tvrdi

My superhero. Im not in ROF boat. I gave em hard time when deserved. I know its DX9 but it looks very nice dont you think? Yes it had problems with stutters (on some rigs) but they solved that in less than a year (do-you-copy?) ROF still has some very advanced features which CLOD doesnt, like dynamic cloud shadows, realistic sun glare, realistic rain drops, much better DOT system (cant cheat with lower res), posibility to extinguish engine fire in dive and so many things which i cant rem right now.

Now now tvrdi, it took ROF 2 years to fix the CTD online. I'm sure you remember the coined word "I've been roffed" where you'd randomly lose 5-6 guys every single time a AI character spawned due to a rof.exe crash. I'm sure you also realize it took ROF 2.5 years before the 1st plane had an FM review as well? The sun in ROF looks much less realistic than it does in Cliffs to me btw. Cliffs also had moving clouds, dynamic cloud shadows, and clouds that even changed shape at release. ROF didn't have moving clouds till after Cliffs did and they still don't change shape. They are static objects that move across the sky, while in cliffs the clouds slowly change shape, form, appear, and dissipate.

See here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN7TOKuTP2k

And don't go into bad code. Of course there's people that like different things and your mileage on certain things may vary, but there's isn't a flight sim out there that has the game engine close to anything like IL2 (new or old). You couldn't place couple 100 big objects in a row in a mission in a row in ROF and fly it, (actually the mission probably wouldn't even load - it would error out) let alone fly it smoothly. Now this isn't to say that there are some obvious performance problems with cliffs as it stands right now. But as a fiddler in the FMB, I can go to town and click away and build w/e I want and the game doesn't care. I think squirrel (when screwing around testing this) placed 20,000 3d trenches along England, (basically until his finger got tired) then flew next to them in amazement.

The point is, once the performance is all sorted, what you are left with is a game engine similar to the old IL2 - which is unsurpassed by any other sim ever made. It's sad to some (not me) that these guys don't really work on the SP campaigns or any of that jazz, but it's because if you want one they'll give you all the tools to make it however complex and immersive you like. That's why you can code anything into a mission that's part of MS's NET framework, amongst a million other possibilities. As a fiddler or a person that gets into the "guts" of these games, there's literally no comparison. Not at all.

It's similar to walking into a house that's gorgeous with all this fancy furniture, then finding out while you can walk around, you can't touch anything. Where as IL2COD is like walking into an unorganized messy house, then realizing that you can do w/e you want in there. The 1st scenario is all bright and flashy at 1st, but then you realize just how limited you are in the scope of things. While the 2nd, your imagination is the limit.

Ask anyone is ROF, and I mean anyone, to try and make a map like this to race online. Then, if you take the time to place just 1/10 of the amount of objects and see what happens when you load the mission, you'll see just where I'm coming from. This is a map someone hosts from their home pc btw. This isn't SP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdOqd...eature=related

And btw, every single thing you see in the map besides the water is an object in the FMB. (not the grey ground texture though) Anything from the mountains, the ramps, to well, everything is there to play with and do w/e you like. Take a gander at the ME in ROF and you'll probably go. ..."oh"

With that said, ROF is good at what is does. It's a nice dog fight simulator, but without the ability to even have a trench as an object in it's mission editor (kinda a big thing in WWI wouldn't you think?) or the ability to place more than a couple hundred objects in a MP mission without the mission going kaput, that's all it will ever be. In IL2, the sky is the limit, once the base engine is all sorted.

So please do watch and read. This type of stuff is exactly why I stand in line with my pom poms eagerly awaiting for what's next.

Originally Posted by ATAG_Bliss

Now now tvrdi, it took ROF 2 years to fix the CTD online.

I must admit I had only few CTDs, mainly before migrating to 64 bit OS (rem., they introduced more RAM usage in one update). Stutters were my biggest problem then. To be fair, I must say I love both sims and enjoy both. But currently I have serious performance issues with CLOD which naturally (sometimes) spoils my fun. So Im talking only about facts. Your right when you say ROF is limited in NO of units which you can use on the map but I think there wasnt (initially) any intention to make ROF nothing more than a very good dogfight sim with some objects as targets for bombers.
Then again I must say that CLOD was (when it was officialy released) in more or less unplayable state and that even today (year after the release) some ppl (with pretty good rigs) have serious performance issues mainly due to poorly optimised code. This will show in full light once we will get optimisation patch so we will see how many steps forward you can do with better coding (optimising).
Hopefully in the next patch. Im not a CLOD hater or ROF die hard fan.
My thoughts are simmilar to those of Chivas (look at his last post).
A short review of both sims:
1) FM and DM - CLOD has very good FM, really, on example, you can almost feel the "heaviness of the plane". DM is nice too. We heard they will further improve both which is great. ROF has a very good FM too, DM is somehow odd on some planes but nothing which will spoil our fun. They are really slow with fixing FM innacuracies and I was really vocal about it....
2) graphics - both sims have nice graphics. CLOD has fantastic cockpits but (IMHO!) landscape is somehow wrong...although they corrected colors in one of the latest patches....plane models and ground objects are in both sims very nice but I currently cant use high details on land objects in CLOD...and a big issue for me is a fact that CLOD (still) doesnt have collision model for trees which is not acceptable for "hardcore sims"...
3) AA and AF - AA doesnt work properly in CLOD...theres a workaround with DX files ofcourse....AA works nice in ROF....AF in both sims is questionable....
4) sounds - new CLOD sounds (made by 777 sound designer) and ROF sounds are fantastic...ofcourse the man wasnt so experienced on ROF start...as he is now, so engine sounds of first ROF planes are not so good..but stock sounds in CLOD were practicaly as those from original IL2....one proof (along with AA and tree collision) that CLOD was indeed released in an alpha state....
5) optimisation and MP - both sims had very big otimisation problems but ROF team somehow fixed their troublers...ofcourse thers still a problem with limited no of units which can be used...my hope that we will see a big improvement in optimisation in CLOD
6) single player - much better in ROF (currently)
7) PR and updates for the community - here ROF team finaly did their homework while 1C struggles with a guy whos not good in english (and had very restricted competences)....but without him we would be in a complete darkness....really odd since we had great updates and communication, back then, in old IL2 days...
so...thats it for now...

[BGs_Ricky]

Originally Posted by Tvrdi

I must admit I had only few CTDs, mainly before migrating to 64 bit OS (rem., they introduced more RAM usage in one update). Stutters were my biggest problem then. To be fair, I must say I love both sims and enjoy both. But currently I have serious performance issues with CLOD which naturally (sometimes) spoils my fun. So Im talking only about facts. Your right when you say ROF is limited in NO of units which you can use on the map but I think there wasnt (initially) any intention to make ROF nothing more than a very good dogfight sim with some objects as targets for bombers.
Then again I must say that CLOD was (when it was officialy released) in more or less unplayable state and that even today (year after the release) some ppl (with pretty good rigs) have serious performance issues mainly due to poorly optimised code. This will show in full light once we will get optimisation patch so we will see how many steps forward you can do with better coding (optimising).
Hopefully in the next patch. Im not a CLOD hater or ROF die hard fan.
My thoughts are simmilar to those of Chivas (look at his last post).
A short review of both sims:
1) FM and DM - CLOD has very good FM, really, on example, you can almost feel the "heaviness of the plane". DM is nice too. We heard they will further improve both which is great. ROF has a very good FM too, DM is somehow odd on some planes but nothing which will spoil our fun. They are really slow with fixing FM innacuracies and I was really vocal about it....
2) graphics - both sims have nice graphics. CLOD has fantastic cockpits but (IMHO!) landscape is somehow wrong...although they corrected colors in one of the latest patches....plane models and ground objects are in both sims very nice but I currently cant use high details on land objects in CLOD...and a big issue for me is a fact that CLOD (still) doesnt have collision model for trees which is not acceptable for "hardcore sims"...
3) AA and AF - AA doesnt work properly in CLOD...theres a workaround with DX files ofcourse....AA works nice in ROF....AF in both sims is questionable....
4) sounds - new CLOD sounds (made by 777 sound designer) and ROF sounds are fantastic...ofcourse the man wasnt so experienced on ROF start...as he is now, so engine sounds of first ROF planes are not so good..but stock sounds in CLOD were practicaly as those from original IL2....one proof (along with AA and tree collision) that CLOD was indeed released in an alpha state....
5) optimisation and MP - both sims had very big otimisation problems but ROF team somehow fixed their troublers...ofcourse thers still a problem with limited no of units which can be used...my hope that we will see a big improvement in optimisation in CLOD
6) single player - much better in ROF (currently)
7) PR and updates for the community - here ROF team finaly did their homework while 1C struggles with a guy whos not good in english (and had very restricted competences)....but without him we would be in a complete darkness....really odd since we had great updates and communication, back then, in old IL2 days...
so...thats it for now...

Very good post !

[DroopSnoot]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Bliss

See here:

I hate to say it but that video was before our colour changing patches, we've lost that beautiful sun at dusk and dawn

[JG52Krupi]

Still looks pretty good to me...

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...postcount=1171

[Ataros]

Originally Posted by Tvrdi

Ataros, LOL, 1920x1200 isnt an insane resolution in 21st century...anyways I didnt gain much going from this to 1680x1050....I tried that too, I was a beta tester so I know all the tricks...

Why is so hard for you to admit what devs admit...its a bad, bad code...period

You may not trust me but you will see that you need a new top video card when new clouds and weather are introduced even with improved engine. Then you will say that it is bad code again.

The truth is you can never have cheap, immediate and quality (including high resolution and sim detail level) solution. You always have to pay more, to wait more or to compromise on quality (resolution) or play more simple arcade games like BF3. It is up to you to decide if you want to take responsibility for your PC performance. It is easier to blame others of cause but it would not increase FPS for you unlike one of above compromises.

Let's wait for the new weather and see. I bet you will not be able to run it in 1920x1200. The devs are struggling to make the game work on mainstream resolutions which are fullHD now I believe but not higher.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by Ataros

You may not trust me but you will see that you need a new top video card when new clouds and weather are introduced even with improved engine. Then you will say that it is bad code again.

The truth is you can never have cheap, immediate and quality (including high resolution and sim detail level) solution. You always have to pay more, to wait more or to compromise on quality (resolution) or play more simple arcade games like BF3. It is up to you to decide if you want to take responsibility for your PC performance. It is easier to blame others of cause but it would not increase FPS for you unlike one of above compromises.

Let's wait for the new weather and see. I bet you will not be able to run it in 1920x1200. The devs are struggling to make the game work on mainstream resolutions which are fullHD now I believe but not higher.

Agreed 100%