Bomber boys - bbc one

[MB_Avro_UK]

Hi all,

What is 'Victor's Justice'?

The Allies Victor's Justice was perhaps better than Hitler's Victors' Justice??

Today, we can discuss Hitler and Allies. If Hitler had won...no discussion...no internet??

Area Bombing?

What is Area Bombing?

The German Luftwaffe used Area Bombing over Europe in 1940. They expected to be the masters of Europe by 1940.

One thing stopped them. The RAF fighter pilots in 1940 during the Battle of Britain who volunteered from all over the world.

Area bombing over Germany was the only alternative for the RAF and the American 8th Air Force. My German friends in Germany (not on this forum) regard the RAF and the American 8th Air Force as being the same as regards area bombing.

By 1944, the RAF at night was more accurate than the American 8th by day.

The attack here by German posters against Harris is typical of 'easy' history. The Germans in WW2 were guilty of the most barbaric acts imaginable and resulted in the deaths of millions. RAF Bomber Command was the ONLY method available to attack Germany from 1940 onwards.

WW2 was caused by Germany. The deaths of German civilians was therefore caused by Germany.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by MB_Avro_UK

Hi all,

What is 'Victor's Justice'?

The Allies Victor's Justice was perhaps better than Hitler's Victors' Justice??

Today, we can discuss Hitler and Allies. If Hitler had won...no discussion...no internet??

Area Bombing?

What is Area Bombing?

The German Luftwaffe used Area Bombing over Europe in 1940. They expected to be the masters of Europe by 1940.

One thing stopped them. The RAF fighter pilots in 1940 during the Battle of Britain who volunteered from all over the world.

Sorry man, but yours sounds like a post-pub rambling...
The RAF in 1940 didn't stop area bombing, bombing operations continued after the apex of the Battle of Britain and well into 1941, followed by V-1s, V-2s and Operation Steinbock in 1944.

Area bombing over Germany was the only alternative for the RAF and the American 8th Air Force.

It was never demonstrated that area bombing was the only alternative, in fact it caused a lot of trouble postwar, and it didn't alter or shorten the war's length. According to Doenitz it surely was a huge blow for morale on the citizens, but the war in the ETO ended only when the Allies entered Berlin and Hitler killed himself.

My German friends in Germany (not on this forum) regard the RAF and the American 8th Air Force as being the same as regards area bombing.

Well it wasn't the same thing. The 8th Air Force never approved area bombing in the ETO, they only went for pinpoint attacks with collateral damage, but never deliberately bombed civilian targets like the RAF did. What your German friends think is irrelevant to the facts of history.

By 1944, the RAF at night was more accurate than the American 8th by day.

yeah, one thing is hitting a factory complex in daylight, another is hitting a target the size of a city at night all they had to do admittedly was following the glare and drop onto the city on fire.. again, I'm afraid you don't know what you're talking about.

The attack here by German posters against Harris is typical of 'easy' history. The Germans in WW2 were guilty of the most barbaric acts imaginable and resulted in the deaths of millions. RAF Bomber Command was the ONLY method available to attack Germany from 1940 onwards.

Au contraire, you'll find non-Germans here that thinks area bombing was a war crime. This is not a race on who committed the worst atrocities (the Russians would win by far in that race), the whole point was that a celebration of Arthur "Bomber" Harris is totally out of place due to the controversial nature of his orders.
As per "the only method available" I'm sure you've heard of D-Day the incomplete intelligence together with production dispersion meant that it was impossible to completely annihilate the German industrial machine. Many production lines in fact increased their output during the round-the-clock bombings of 1944/45.
There really was no reason to pulverise those German cities other than retaliation. "De-housing" was a mere excuse,since by the late stage of the war many production sites were ran with slave labour.

WW2 was caused by Germany. The deaths of German civilians was therefore caused by Germany.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

that's simply ludicrous, but considering the rest of your post, I wouldn't expect a more elaborated conclusion.

Seriously, read the whole thread before posting such nonsense.

[csThor]

Originally Posted by MB_Avro_UK

Area bombing over Germany was the only alternative for the RAF and the American 8th Air Force. My German friends in Germany (not on this forum) regard the RAF and the American 8th Air Force as being the same as regards area bombing.

Pardon my french, but BS. In 1941 and 1942 Bomber Command was certainly the only means the UK had to strike directly at Germany but the tactical problems (such as the lack of a long-range escort) made its use difficult. One of the key reasons why area bombing at night was chosen - apart from lessening the potential losses and the lack of sufficiently precise technology for night attacks - was the incredible fear of the RAF of becoming subordinated to the Army again and so the key figures decided to show that the RAF was capable of conducting the war on its own. This internal political squabble - a leftover from the 1920s squabbles over the greatly diminished funds and the role of the RAF - was a very powerful motivator to the people in charge and combined with the vanity of Arthur Harris, who was also fighting his own war with his internal critics, this provided the matrix for the strategy the RAF Bomber Command applied in WW2.

On a sidenote it is darkly amusing to see the attempts of the nations between the wars to ban deliberate attacks on the civilian population ... and to see which nations deliberately torpedoed any such attempts. Can you guess? Yes, the USA (which at the time of the last attempt was about to roll out the prototype of the B-17) and the United Kingdom (which had used aerial attacks on civilian settlements in "colonial warfare" already). But all of that is history now ...