4.11 and Engine Overheat

[Kittle]

I enjoy the game more with the new engine model. Just flying around requires more attention then before, so obviously combat has become much more complicated. I actually use all 8 axis between the two controllers, on every flight unless the aircraft has auto prop pitch or radiator. The game has far more value to me now then before, and that is nothing but pure GOODNESS in my eyes!

[Marak99]

Does anyone have any tips for take off in the 262 in 4.11?

It's always been a tricky plane to get airborne without blowing it to smithereens, but as long as you followed the guide lines from the pilot's handbook it was usually possible to get up without problems.

Since 4.11 I'm back to square one. I've tried both the RAF and USAAF handbooks, which recommend a very slow power-up to 6-7000 rpm before applying full power for take off, but I find that the engines start to overheat almost immediately I hit 8000 rpm swiftly followed by one or both engines turning into boil in the bag dinners.

It's possible to get airborne at around 80% throttle without cooking anything, but the roll out is excessive, even for the 262.

Also, thanks to everyone at Daidalos for their efforts. Can't believe I've been playing this game for ten years and new things are still arriving.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Marak99

Does anyone have any tips for take off in the 262 in 4.11?

It's always been a tricky plane to get airborne without blowing it to smithereens, but as long as you followed the guide lines from the pilot's handbook it was usually possible to get up without problems.

Since 4.11 I'm back to square one. I've tried both the RAF and USAAF handbooks, which recommend a very slow power-up to 6-7000 rpm before applying full power for take off, but I find that the engines start to overheat almost immediately I hit 8000 rpm swiftly followed by one or both engines turning into boil in the bag dinners.

It's possible to get airborne at around 80% throttle without cooking anything, but the roll out is excessive, even for the 262.

Also, thanks to everyone at Daidalos for their efforts. Can't believe I've been playing this game for ten years and new things are still arriving.

I'm not sure if this is a tip or not but I just had a go to see if my normal technique works and it's unchanged for 4.11.

Basically:

- Start both engines, allow both engines to warm at 5-10% throttle (breaks on)
- Drop takeoff flaps
- Release breaks, increase throttle gradually to 95%
- At 190kph or above pull back
- Maintain gentle climb angle at 95% throttle until speed reaches approximately 300kph
- Back off on throttle to a cruise setting around 70%

You will see the overheat about 5-10 seconds after takeoff but it's not a dangerous overheat at that point as you immediately begin to back off on the throttle.

You may need to be more conservative with a Me262A-2 with SC250 attached as your takeoff run will be longer and shallow climb angle and speed may be affected but honestly this isn't any different than what I have done in the past.

[Marak99]

Hi Ice,

Thanks for taking the time to have a look. Your check list does do a good job getting the thing off the ground in one piece.

My problem was that the handbooks call for running up to 7000 rpm while stationary with the brakes on. I used to be able to do that without making the thing go bang, but now not so much.

Than again I'm certain that IL-2 patches are the ultimate proof of the placebo affect in action. Most of the changes are only in our heads.

[T}{OR]

In addition to what Ice says, and this is a trick I learned by taking off with overloaded bombers, drop no more than combat flaps - only when you are close to the end of the runway. This way you will achieve better acceleration.

[shauncm]

may i request a sub-forum in which to post aircraft specific details.

maybe something called 'pilots lounge' or 'online aircraft handbooks'.

i am happy to offer any help i can on my favourite aircraft. maybe we could have a thread for each aircraft type within this sub-forum...?

by doing this pilots could look up what other pilots suggest about flying a particular aircraft without stressing up the developers more

also i suggest that we stop using 'per-cent' as a measurement format. revs/rpm, manifold pressure, and degrees should probably be used now. percent has become too mis-leading in my humble opinion.

also i think that the only time when the overheat hud message should be talked about is if we are talking about arcade level settings. it doesnt seem to have a place in a 'realistic' simulation.

[shauncm]

max continous temperatures:

90-95*C oil, 120*C coolant. manifold pressure, rpm and radiator irrispective.

in the tempest v pilots notes;

climb, 30 minutes limit = 90/120
5 minutes all out emergency power = 95/120

since 4.11 you can overheat the engine to almost any temperature but if you keep it over 'all out temperature' for 2-3 minutes you will get engine damage. if you are seriously overheating at this time expect the engine to stop dead.

the temperture gauges are accurate.

'wep' should be engaged by default. it seems to simulate a throttle gate, but also seems to be at the wrong manifold pressure.

the arcade 'overheat' message will probably be continuously on.

important altitudes for tempest are;

6000 feet = best speed
10'000 feet, supercharger 2


tempest has a laminar flow wing. it is efficient at high speed/low angle of attack. use this to climb at high speeds. best short term climb rate is at 250 kph..(ish), but best long term climb rate is faster.

if you are climbing or flying slowly keep the radiator open. if you are not in combat keep the radiator open. the rest of the time try to keep it closed as it causes significant drag.

the prop reaches 0.95 mach...(im trying to remember off the top of my head).
in a dive the tips of the propellor can near the spead of sound. reduce revs to prevent the tips getting to that speed as it becomes very inefficient. keep the radiator closed in a dive.

think of 3000 rpm as standard, 3750 as emergency fine, (ie for an emergency climb/ takeoff/ scissors)


[i am not trying to give advice on air combat manoevers, nor am i implying that what i say is in any way realistic....im just trying to help with this aircraft, in this game. some of the numbers come from memory, but hopefully it helps to show what i proposed.]

[-)-MAILMAN-]

The release notes state that we should be flying all of the planes at approximately 70% throttle and 70% prop pitch to avoid over heating. It also states that the gages are not to be relied upon.

The F4U Corsair and the F6F Hellcat had a manually operated mechanical two stage, two speed supercharger. I will make a couple of assumptions. I have assumed that in the game supercharger one is neutral blower, supercharger 2 is low blower and supercharger 3 is high blower. In previous versions of the game I could switch supercharger to maintain the correct manifold air pressure as I changed altitudes.

I fly the F4U and F6F a lot. I flew them with historical power settings prior to this latest release even though it would take me a bit longer to get to the combat area. Normally it gave me an edge by giving me a longer duration at high performance because I started combat at cooler engine temperature. I would exceed these settings only when engaged in combat.

The F4U had a normal continuous power setting of 2550 RPM (93% prop pitch in the game) and 44" MAP from Sea Level to 8000 feet with supercharger one and cowl flaps 2/3 open (position 6 in game). The throttle would have to be increased continuously as I climbed. At 8000 ft I would have to exceed 100% throttle to maintain the 44" MAP so I would switch to supercharger two, lower the throttle setting to maintain 48" MAP and continue to climb. At approximately 18,500 feet I would have to exceed 100% throttle to maintain 48" MAP so I would switch to supercharger three and reduce the throttle and maintain 48" and continue to climb where eventually the altitude would not allow me to maintain the 48" MAP. These settings coincided with the actually flight data for the F4U-1 Corsairs. For additional proof go to Zeno's Warbirds Web page and view the movie for flying the F4U-1 Corsair. It describes in detail all of the settings for Normal Power Climb as well as power settings for Military and Cruise. Normal continuous is just that, they could run the power settings like this forever with deviations due to geographical locations where the temperatures would be considerably higher on average. This is not cruise or maximum cruise.

With this latest release you cannot follow the actual flight manual or the official documentation any longer. In previous releases operating with a normal power setting you could easily extend away in a 1000 foot/min climb from a Zero or Oscar and eventually from the Ki-61 unless they went to military or war emergency power. With this release you can no longer maintain the correct manifold pressure settings as you climb below 8000 feet. You reach 100% throttle below 5000 feet and have to exceed 100% to keep 44" manifold air pressure which causes you to overheat prior to reaching 8000 feet where you will switch to supercharger two. The plane then appears to revert to the old engine performance above 8000 feet. The F4U-1 uses the Pratt & Whitney R-2800-8 and later -8W engine.

The F6F which uses the Pratt & Whitney R-2800-10 and later -10W engine and a different carburetor (may explain the different MAP setting) than that used on the F4U has the same issues. A normal power climb in the F6F would use an RPM setting of 2550 RPM and 44" MAP using supercharger position one from Sea Level up to 7,000 feet. As you continued to climb you would would maintain 49.5" MAP and change supercharger settings all the way up to critical altitude. You cannot maintain 49.5" MAP all the way up to7,000 feet without exceeding 100% throttle and overheating the engine.

Taking away water injection on the Corsair MkI (F4U-1) & F6F-3 Late should have no bearing on heating issues nor should it change the performance parameters for normal power settings.

At least in the previous versions of the game you could fly by the gages (flight envelope) and not have to rely on the text telling you what percentage of throttle to have. Why have the gages if they aren't reliable?