4.11 and Engine Overheat

[pupo162]

Originally Posted by FC99

Who says that 100% in game is equivalent of nominal power in RL?

THIS pretty much solves all problems.

the one thing about il2 engine management was that 100% was considered the "use at all times safe engine setting" this was not, it isn't , and it will never be true.

most planes have the "use at all times safe engine setting" at maybe 60-70%, some planes have it lower, some have it higher, but it will never be 100% and it will never be the same for all planes.

jsut as an extra, the plane i flew, a 1946 chipmunk, we flew it at about 60% throttle at all times. time limit in 100% was 6 seconds. over about 70% ( you don't have percentages there, so im guessing a bit) the engine would very rapedely overheat, and over rev., BUT it wouldnt blow up, and possible we could fly it like that for HOURS, but when we got home, and the mechanic went to check the engine, it would go directly to garbage.

[Pips]

Originally Posted by pupo162

most planes have the "use at all times safe engine setting" at maybe 60-70%, some planes have it lower, some have it higher, but it will never be 100% and it will never be the same for all planes.

It would be nice then if TD stated just what the heat management parameters were for each aircraft (or group if that's what they've programmed).

At least everyone would know where they stand then, and do much to cut out the quibbling about overheating.

[pupo162]

Originally Posted by Pips

It would be nice then if TD stated just what the heat management parameters were for each aircraft (or group if that's what they've programmed).

At least everyone would know where they stand then, and do much to cut out the quibbling about overheating.

i agree with that.

For example RL Spitfire MK IX at nominal power +12 lbs 2850 RPMs could run 1 hour according to manual.

In game SPitfire MK IX at nominal power ( 99% power - 12lbs, 90% prop pitch - 2850 RPM) after few minutes overheat.

overheat is difeernet from engine blow up. check your temps, if you are in slight over head 1º 2º 3º the engine will not blow up. it wouldnt probably blow up in +20º either. it would simply wear out quicker and be sent to garbage or maintenance sooner.

[Treetop64]

I genuinely mean no disrespect by this, but I think that many (not all, but many) of the complaints of the new overheat model are sired from honest ignorance on how piston aircraft engines actually overheat.

Pre 4.11 engine temps were effected more by manifold pressure than by engine RPMs or mixture settings, which simply is not realistic at all. The pre 4.11 engine temp model was a joke, and I, for one, am glad it's been fixed.

With 4.11 you actually have to resort to some semblance of real-world procedures to manage engine temps in a given situation, and for many of us that meant re-learning how to fly aircraft in the sim that we may have long-since established methods of getting the most out of. It's inevitable that there will be some resistance to do that. More than ever before engine RPMs and mixture settings have more of an effect on temps, as it should be.

Also, as has been stated nearly a hundred times in different threads, the triggering of the ENGINE OVERHEAT HUD message is very, very conservative. Unrealistically so. It's display does not indicate imminent engine destruction if you don't immediately pull back on the levers. One should either turn off HUD messages and learn to use the gauges, or simply ignore the OVERHEAT message. Trust me; you'll find that you can reliably push your chosen aircraft much harder, and for a much longer period of time, than you could if you make yourself a slave to the HUD message.

[mmaruda]

Treetop is right, I've seen many post saying that people experience overheat too early and then at some point they state they were running 80% pitch in a dive or something. I'm not an expert in IL-2 prop mechanics, but with the P-51 for example, if you really want the thing going, at optimal RPM, the pitch would be around 55%. That is something to keep in mind - proper RPM at a given situation. Another thing is the general engine operating conditions, if you push the plane real hard and the engine is quite hot already, don't expect to go for too long before you experience overheat. Real pilots did everything they could to keep their engines cool before engaging in a fight, that means radiator and pitch management, which most gamers don't care about.

Again I believe this an issue with wrong pitch management. I have read many posts and articles trying to explain how it works in the game, but most of the were general and mentioned stuff like "100% in combat as you need full power", which is just wrong since you need speed in combat and the prop generates a lot of drag. It also affects you maneuverability in some planes. I never use 100% pitch unless for landing and take-off or in steep climb and I have never ever damaged my engine in 4.11. The key is watching the temp indicator not the overheat message. That is what real pilots do, since they don't have a virtual hud to tell them everything.

I think it would be nice if the devs wrote some detailed guide as to how to manage you engine in various planes in different situations.

Anyway, though not being an expert on IL-2, I strongly believe that most of the complaints people make about FMs, engine management and other stuff really come from lack of knowledge on how to do it properly, rather than something being porked.

In other words, it's not the software, it's the user.

[Pips]

Originally Posted by mmaruda

I think it would be nice if the devs wrote some detailed guide as to how to manage you engine in various planes in different situations.

Absolutely. Well overdue. The overheat parameters have been changed/modified, and Team D really does need to put some specific information out on the subject.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

I think it would be nice if the devs wrote some detailed guide as to how to manage you engine in various planes in different situations.

Well yes, we could do that, but you wouldn't see any patch in the next three years then.

[E.Z.I]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

Well yes, we could do that, but you wouldn't see any patch in the next three years then.

I hope so!

Daidalos team has from the beginning just a job. Complete removal of the red side. 10.1, the Spitfire took from the game and 4.11, the P40 and others. I and many others are out.
Thank you and have fun

[FC99]

Originally Posted by Treetop64

Also, as has been stated nearly a hundred times in different threads, the triggering of the ENGINE OVERHEAT HUD message is very, very conservative. Unrealistically so. It's display does not indicate imminent engine destruction if you don't immediately pull back on the levers. One should either turn off HUD messages and learn to use the gauges, or simply ignore the OVERHEAT message. Trust me; you'll find that you can reliably push your chosen aircraft much harder, and for a much longer period of time, than you could if you make yourself a slave to the HUD message.

Exactly, people are used to old model where they were able to game the game. Overheat message was sign that timer has started and they could push their plane at full power for the next 3-8 minutes (depending on plane) without the slightest worry.

It is not so now. Overheat message only indicates that damage is possible , higher the temperature bigger are the chances that damage will occur. But if you are just a fraction of degree above the temperature limit "Overheat" message will be displayed but you have better chances to win the lottery than to damage your engine.

OTOH even if you overheat your engine a lot you might get lucky and get away with it without the damage. Just like in RL, you never know what is going to happen, you can't use the stopwatch and exploit simple overheat model like before.

Originally Posted by Pips

Absolutely. Well overdue. The overheat parameters have been changed/modified, and Team D really does need to put some specific information out on the subject.

There is too many planes in the game for that, we can provide free patches but community should do its part too and help with the things like this. You can take your favorite plane and find best settings for it. If some others do the same for their favorite planes, very soon, we will have comprehensive database which might help other players.

Originally Posted by E.Z.I

I hope so!

Daidalos team has from the beginning just a job. Complete removal of the red side. 10.1, the Spitfire took from the game and 4.11, the P40 and others. I and many others are out.
Thank you and have fun

We will probably release two more patches this year but as you are out you don't have to worry about it any more. And that's not all, we will not stop until whole planet is blue,hm, maybe it is blue already?

[Asheshouse]

Originally Posted by FC99

we can provide free patches but community should do its part too and help with the things like this. You can take your favourite plane and find best settings for it. If some others do the same for their favourite planes, very soon, we will have comprehensive database which might help other players.

Very good idea. I'm sure there are many who could contribute.

Originally Posted by FC99

We will probably release two more patches this year.

Great news

Ashe