ATAG's 1st Bomber Night this Weekend

[klem]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Grounded AI are taken out by the same scripts that despawn player aircraft. You need to have AI in the air. Vertical distance is still distance too, you only get calls within a certain range. Aircraft size and numbers also play a role in getting messages, it's far easier for AI/Human players to spot large formations, small single engined aircraft are more likely to slip through un-noticed.

ok

Spent two hours in there tonight. Its pretty well hopeless with small numbers and without radar unless we get lucky. Some of our guys found 2 110s late on but couldn't catch them.

I like the setup though. When the radar is fixed it should work out well.

[5./JG27.Farber]

That test is invalid if you were flying a red spit. YOUR aircraft will spot things, sometimes even beyond visable range.

Originally Posted by klem

ok

Spent two hours in there tonight. Its pretty well hopeless with small numbers and without radar unless we get lucky. Some of our guys found 2 110s late on but couldn't catch them.

Heheh that was me and Klein! I shot up one of your guys in a Hurricane and then we skedaddled. That was fun, it was interesting to be dive bombing a factory and shooting an Indianer of your leads tail at the same time.... Real question is did I hit the factory?

[IvanK]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

That test is invalid if you were flying a red spit. YOUR aircraft will spot things, sometimes even beyond visable range.





Heheh that was me and Klein! I shot up one of your guys in a Hurricane and then we skedaddled. That was fun, it was interesting to be dive bombing a factory and shooting an Indianer of your leads tail at the same time.... Real question is did I hit the factory?

Invalid flying a Red spit ... I am not going to get info from a Red Radar in Blue aeroplane.
As to "My" aeroplane being able to see things outside visible range ... well thats an invalid comment as well ... What is considered a suitable range then ? What evidence is their thats its "me" seeing the HEIII's ?

I will retest putting the HEIII's double the range from Dungeness and me over London.

[IvanK]

Re did the mission. Targets Start over St Omer Airfield at 2000m.
Red Fighter starts over Biggin Hill.

I got the text and audio message about 4 mins into the mission.
Bombers reported in N6, with Red spitfire (Me) heading away on North Westerly heading
Measured separations where.

Red Fighter to Blue Target 100km
Blue target to Radar range at "Detection" 40km



I will dig out some actual CH radar data I think I have. This will give some typical range capabilities of CH radar.... which wasn't a whole lot compared with modern day microwave radars.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Interesting IvanK.

We scattered about 100 radar or mixed type including wotans on the Steppe map and could not make them pick anything up. I wonder if there is a min and max range where they function and min max altitude they detect. And even a percentile of detection!?

What about repeating the test with no radar?

Is there a way to monitor enemy comms? That would be interesting.

Did you do this on an online map... Server style?

[csThor]

Wotan systems were not radars, they were devices for blind bombing (Wotan 1 = X-Verfahren, Wotan 2 = Y-Verfahren). No wonder they didn't pick up aircraft.

[IvanK]

Historically a CH radar required both types of the Radar units seen in game. RADAR 1 represents the 4 Transmission (Tx) towers. Radar 2 represents a single Reciever (Rx) tower. In the real installation each TX tower had its own Rx tower. Ideally in game Radar 2 should be a group of 4 towers to match the 4 Tx towers that are contained in Radar 1.

I dont know how its coded in game as the whether you need to actually place both Rx and Tx towers for a COD radar to become active. I just did it this way to be graphically correct.
Both Tx towers and Rx towers should have the same alignment.

In addition CH stations were very directional. The coverage being at right angles to the array.
Side lobes were pretty big so it wasn't a raygun by any means but still very directional ... hence the need for the number of CH stations in the chain. This insured overlap with few if any gaps. This directionality also being the reason that CH couldn't see inland ... the area behind the Towers being blind. Once the targets crossed the coast CH radar was useless ... the plots then only possible from Observer corps observations.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Assign guys to fly patrols over the target areas, saving a flight or two for intercept duties. You will get contact messages when player aircraft find E/A also! Not the best fix, but it would work. Think N.Africa, where no one had radar, heh.

Would it make sense to just hide some AI aircraft on the ground to serve as "spotters"? Or are those removed by the engine when standing still after a while?

[klem]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Assign guys to fly patrols over the target areas, saving a flight or two for intercept duties. You will get contact messages when player aircraft find E/A also! Not the best fix, but it would work. Think N.Africa, where no one had radar, heh.

We did assign patrol areas and we did get a couple of "radar" messages when the LW were near our aircraft but its all too late by then, especialy if its after they have bombed the target. Its pure chance that the patrol line will be at the right spot at the right time (we only had four pairs to cover the whole SE coast from Brighton to Ramsgate). Its not even as good as the Observer corps.

No doubt about it, without radar we would have lost the BoB. We would have been no more effective in the air than we were in France and you know how that finished up.

[IvanK]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Ya, I know its really ineffective. Just trying to think of a solution as nothing I could do makes it work. Going to test IvanK's mission and see what's different in it.

We tried over 50 radars + radio towers, 0 radars, powering the radar/radio the same way we power searchlights, using airfield AI, everything we could think of. Probably built no less than 25-30 maps. Most was done during the first beta patch.


Ivan, I don't think the contact gets announced at greater than visual range, but instead, think of it as you get the contact call regardless of whether the pilot himself can see the aircraft. It would be within visual range, but perhaps your computer hasn't drawn the dots, or its too high/low for you to see yourself, but they are technically within range it would have been possible to see.

100Km separation from Fighter to target .... Even if the targets were 3 X A380's you wouldn't be able to see them
Also I didnt use any Generators.

Will retest the mission without radar and report back.