Daidalos Team's Room -QUESTIONS AND REQUESTS ONLY - For 4.11

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Originally Posted by Lagarto

Caspar - since you mentioned being able to do more with external help - I was wondering if DT and mod makers are mutually interested in joining efforts. I'm aware that many 3D models are not up to your standards but what about maps? I've seen some WIP screenshots of Donbass (eastern Ukraine) and Caucasus maps, for example. Is there any chance that you incorporate them into your future patches? I hope the subject is not too sensitive to discuss it here

Especially regarding 3rd party maps, there is something going on, yes. No more details.

[dFrog]

OK, Caspar. I'll ask directly. Why TD does not want to make certain "things" ? There have been many requests or wishes for e.g. Hurricane Mk.IId or Mk.IV. Yes, they exist as mods, but this is no option for users, who do not want to use them.
As far as I can see, TD has never made anything what allready exist as mod, it was allways something else. For example manual bomb bay doors. Will we ever see this made oficial or never, because it was made first as a mod ? I just like to know...

[FrankB]

Originally Posted by dFrog

OK, Caspar. I'll ask directly. Why TD does not want to make certain "things" ? There have been many requests or wishes for e.g. Hurricane Mk.IId or Mk.IV. Yes, they exist as mods, but this is no option for users, who do not want to use them.

I am not anyhow connected with TD so I can't speak for them, but it is obvious that there are so many requests that one could work on them for the whole lifetime and still not be finished, so it is a matter of priorities.

Also I would say TD is focusing more on generic issues (e.g. navigation in 4.10 which required coordinated changes all over the code) than specific ones (adding one more plane to the list of, um, more than 100 others).

Do not make me wrong, If I received the Hurri you are talking about, I would be of course grateful for it, but I appretiate TD for doing changes none of the modders is capable of.

Originally Posted by dFrog

As far as I can see, TD has never made anything what allready exist as mod, it was allways something else. For example manual bomb bay doors. Will we ever see this made oficial or never, because it was made first as a mod ? I just like to know...

You are wrong, for example the bomb fuze delay first appeared as a mod.

If you read the forums carefuly, you will see the TD are open to 3rd party development. The main issue seems to be the modders usualy have no interest/will/skills/whatewer to bring the work up to TD standards so it could be included in the official patch.

As a proof you can look around these forums you can see B24 and other planes being developed by 3rd parties and scheduled for inclusion in subsequent patches, so that is definitely not a problem.

[Juri_JS]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

Especially regarding 3rd party maps, there is something going on, yes. No more details.

Caspar, are there certain standards a map has to meet to be included in an official patch, comparable to the standards for new aircraft?

[_1SMV_Gitano]

I'll try to answer:

@ dFrog: making a mod is much easier and less time-consuming than a properly built model. You mention the Hurricane IId. If you check the Vokes filter on the modded model, you'll recognize that it is just the mesh of the Spitfire Vc copied there, IIRC with no LODs at all.

As already said, there are few 3d modellers within DT, they (we all) work for free in the spare time so we would like to retain the freedom to choose what to model. A help from the community would be more modellers willing to work under specs. The few that decided so are doing an outstanding job!

@ Juri: yes, there are some specs also for maps. I'm not an expert so Caspar can be more precise. Anyway, here are some tips:

Generic:
- maps representing WW2 scenario or pre-WW2 conflicts are welcomed. However, regions under 1C veto are not allowed. These are currently the English Channel, the MTO and Korea; Situation could change in the future but is is hard to say at the moment;
- Map should be 1:1 scale and possibly not too large;
- Size should depend on object count. For comparison, take Solomons map as an extreme limit;
- Maps with reduce scale are ok if distances involved are too large;
- Rivers should be at sea level. Isolated lakes can be at higher altitude;

Objects:
- custom objects should be made under specs, both polycount and texture-wise;
- Objects coming from other games are not allowed;
- Re-textured objects with binary meshes are not allowed;

1.Textures:
1.1. File format should be standardized, (large TGB, smaller TGA, add bump and tree sub-textures for each main texture)
1.2. Roads, hedgerows and other similar and prominent terrain features of the textures should be tile-able between different textures. Would be even better, if painted roads will (sat least partially) fit into map road grid.
1.3. If RL photo was used to create texture, any buildings and other anthropogenic features, except roads, should be removed from the texture (a blurred "shadows", where buildings are supposed to be may be left only).
1.4. Last, but not least: all textures within one map should be in relatively same color gamma. Bump maps from different textures should also be unified (without large difference in contranst between different files).

2. Texture placement on the map:
2.1. Textures with noticeable structure (like fields, for instance), which produce pattern effect should NOT be placed alone. Instead a random mix of 2-4 similar, but different textures, which has tile-able edges should be used.
2.2. Rivers MUST have an underlying textures along whole it's length.
2.3. Textures and objects should be placed in realistic manner, resembling real life. Like: no fields on steep slopes; fields are usually separated from rivers/sea with a grassy or forested area; hill tops use brighter textures (due to fewer water supply) and so on.

3. Other stuff:
3.1. Far map texture should be produced after final texture placement.
3.2. Preferably that user map images would be made in standard IL-2 manner.

[dFrog]

Don't take me wrong, I really appreciate all the effort TD is putting into this game. I just wonder why some versions of already existing planes are still missing. For example brits are still missing ground attack plane - Typhoon or Hurricane Mk.IId
One more question - MTO ban includes whole Mediteranean or just some areas ? I'm still hoping for Avia S-199 and map of Syria - Palestine - Egypt area.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Originally Posted by Juri_JS

Caspar, are there certain standards a map has to meet to be included in an official patch, comparable to the standards for new aircraft?

Yes. There have to be correct texture and file type and size, not too much objects (I have no numbers in mind at the moment) and not too much size (although the reasonable size of the map depends also on objects density). I.e. Bessarabia was to big, so the object density had to be reduced a bit, on the other side the large Solomons map is ok, since it has a low density.
And finally, it shouldn't contain modded objects (naturally), except, if such objects are delivered together with the map as a full standard 3D model, so we can include it. Roads and rails all must work. Same for bridges. Rivers have to be on 0m level.
Well... such stuff... Gitano has already told the most details.

EDIT: 1:1 scale is not a requirement, but nice to have. We even would accept a pure fun-map, if its well made.

But generally you have to care for less points in map making, compared to aircraft modeling.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Why TD does not want to make certain "things" ?

Well, that is not true in its core. If we could, we would do everything, that can be considered as 'missing'! Most issue contrary to that is: not enough manpower and not enough time.

As for the Hurri IID and the manual bomb doors, I think both have very good chances for future implementation anyway. Just be patient pls. The day, that we say: "Thats it, folks!" - that day you can start to complain.

[dFrog]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

...As for the Hurri IID and the manual bomb doors, I think both have very good chances for future implementation anyway. Just be patient pls. The day, that we say: "Thats it, folks!" - that day you can start to complain.

Good to hear, looking forward...

[Lagarto]

Thank you Gitano and Caspar for your posts, very interesting and informative. I'm a little unhappy about the ban on the MTO, which means no Sicily/Malta map, as I understand it. I sincerely hope the 1C has some good reason for it, like an MTO extension pack for ClOD (although I doubt such an add-on would make any sense at the current state of things).
I'm also curious about the maps' size limit. The stock maps are generally small but I thought it's because they were made with 2001/2003-era PCs in mind. The present-day computers surely can handle much more but perhaps the game's engine can't?