Are slats shy ?

Varrattu · #1 11-30-2011, 02:13 PM

The current il2CoD bf-109 flight model files include the following entry:

LeadingEdgeSlats Mechanical Automatic Move 0.1 sec ResponseRange 15.0 to 15.01 deg

(personal note: when the BF109E stands on the ground, the AoA is 16 deg.)

Following the entry, the slats should function manually and/or automatically.

Looking at the current 15.0 to 15.01 deg AoA, the flaps should not work seriously.

Happy landings

Varrattu

TomcatViP · #2 12-01-2011, 12:14 PM

For me it only means that they were not satisfied with the result and blocked it without cancelling the code (for a latter revue ?)

Nice found Varra - a bit scary but nice

IvanK · #3 12-01-2011, 09:19 PM

Slat operation (or lack of early enough operation) has been snagged with the devs a while a go. That find in the FM probably explains why we are seeing what we are.

the Dutchman · #4 12-02-2011, 10:16 AM

i dunno about slats,but sluts sure aren't................

TomcatViP · #5 12-03-2011, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvanK

Slat operation (or lack of early enough operation) has been snagged with the devs a while a go. That find in the FM probably explains why we are seeing what we are.

I made an offline test with an E4 today (long time I did not hve tried) and the slats seems to function on that model. I was able to turn 360 with the slats opened.

The E4 is also much easier to handle in high G moves. It might be that the last patch has introduced some significant changes.

Varra in what plane's FM did you found those lines of Codes ?

Khamsin · #6 12-11-2011, 09:11 AM

"Hand off the throttle, select FLUG on the undercarriage selector, The mechanical indicators motor up very quickly, and you feel and hear a "clonk, clonk" as the gear comes home. A quick look at the wings, and you can see that the slats - fully out - are starting to creep in as the airspeed increases and the angle of attack is reduced"

'Flying the Bf109' - by Mark Hanna, "Fighters, the Best of Flight Journal:, Summer 2001.

From all I've read, I believe that the slats on the 109E should be free to move through intermediate positions, just like its currently modelled in IL-2.

The ONLY references I've ever heard to slats "banging in and out" involve either hard maneuvering of the aircraft (thus rapidly transitioning through AoA) or getting in the slipstream of a large bomber (also large AoA transitions).

Gentle movements of the stick in a turn, or holding pitch constant whilst increasing airspeed (thus slowly decreasing AoA) should have the slats moving/creeping in and out.

Varrattu · #7 12-18-2011, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

Varra in what plane's FM did you found those lines of Codes ?

Bf-109E-3.fmd

PHP Code:


			
;

; Messerschmitt Bf. 109 E-3 Flightmodel

;



;

[Aircraft]

;



Wingspan            9.867 m

Length              8.738 m



;

[Systems]

;



Propulsion          Engine Daimler-Benz DB601A Propellor VDM Generic

Hydraulics          Source Engine0 Pressure 100 bar Reservoir 8.5 pt

Electrics           Source Engine0 Voltage 25.1 V BatteryCapacity 54 Ah GeneratorOutput 650 sW at 2000 RPM



LandingFlaps        Mechanical Extends 25 sec

Undercarriage       Retractable Hydraulic Extends 5.0 sec Folds Outwards OperatesThrough 320 kmh EmergencySystem PneumaticDischarge SafetyLock Nil SpringsStiffness Main 0.6 Tail 0.6 MaxDragEquivalentS 0.7 m2

WheelBrakes         Hydraulic Efficiency 1.5

Fenster             Mechanical Opens 0.5 sec

PitotHeater         Electrical

LeadingEdgeSlats    Mechanical Automatic Move 0.1 sec ResponseRange 15.0 to 15.01 deg



Hatch0              Mechanical Motion Type SwingingForward Time 2.0 sec Jettison Type Detachable Time 0.2 sec

Hatch1              Mechanical Motion Type Nil Time 0.0 sec Jettison Type Detachable Time 0.2 sec



;

[Controls]

;



Aileron             Slider Threshold 340 kmh

Elevator            Slider Threshold 400 kmh

Rudder              Slider Threshold 400 kmh



AileronTrim         Nil Default 0.017

ElevatorTrim        Slider Range -0.5 to 0.5 Default 0.25

RudderTrim          Nil Default 0.06



EngineThrottle      Slider

EnginePitch         Rocker

EngineMagneto       Switch M0 M1 M2 M12

EngineRadiator      Rocker

EngineOilRadiator   Slider

EngineMix           Toggle

EngineWEP           PushButton



LandingFlaps        Rocker

Undercarriage       Switch Up Neutral Down

UndercarriageEmergency ExpendableSwitch Close Open

WheelBrakes         Slider

Fenster             Toggle

AltimeterPinion     Rocker Range 795 to 1040 Default 1000 mbar

Puppet0PriPitLight  Slider

Puppet0SightLight   Slider

NavSecFrequency     Rocker

Timer0              CyclicSwitch

AcemakerSight       Dimmer Toggle

TankSelector0       Toggle Off On Parked 0 Cruise 1 Selection 0 Flow FuelTank 1 to FuelTank 0 at 1 kg per second Selection 1 Flow FuelTank 1 to FuelTank 0 at 1 kg per second + FuelTank 0 to Engine 0

HydraulicsHandPump  PushButton

PitotHeater         Toggle

Timer0              CyclicSwitch



Puppet0Hatch        Toggle Close Open Selection 0 Closes Hatch 0 Selection 1 Opens Hatch 0

Puppet0Jettison     ExpendableSwitch Off On Selection 1 Sheds Hatch 0 Hatch 1



;

[Instruments]

;



EngineFuelPress     Hydraulic Range 0 to 2 kgcm2

EngineOilPress      Hydraulic Range 0 to 10 kgcm2

EngineOilTemp       Electrical Range 0 to 120 C

EngineWaterTemp     Electrical Range 0 to 120 C

EngineManifoldPress Mechanical Range 0.6 to 1.8 bar

EngineRPM           Electrical Range 600 to 3600 RPM

EnginePropPitch     Mechanical Range 0 to 12 hour

Speedometer         Mechanical Range 0 to 800 kmh Pitot Kollsman

Altimeter           Mechanical Dimension m

MagneticCompass     Mechanical JamAngle 90.0 deg

SlipIndicator       Mechanical Amplitude 12.0 deg

TurnIndicator       Mechanical Source Primary NominalTurnTime 2 min

FuelReserve         Electrical Range 0 to 400 litre

ArtificialHorizon   Mechanical Source Primary Pitch Range -45 to 45 deg Roll Range -181 to 181 deg



GyroFeed            Primary Electrical Secondary Nil



;

[Mass]

;



Empty               2060 kg

TakeOff             2600 kg

Fuel                300 kg

FuelTanks           Aluminum 100 kg Aluminum 200 kg

FuelFillingOrder    Tank 0 Tank 1



;

[Squares]

;



Wing                16.4 m2

Aileron             1.1 m2

Flap                2.0 m2

Stabilizer          1.90 m2

Elevator            1.20 m2

Keel                1.00 m2

Rudder              1.10 m2



;

[Arm]

;



Aileron             2.03 m

Flap                2.04 m

Stabilizer          5.15 m

Keel                5.18 m

Elevator            5.35 m

Rudder              5.45 m

Wing_In             1.25 m

Wing_Mid            2.50 m

Wing_Out            4.10 m

GCenter             0.05 m

GCenterZ            0.00 m

GC_AOA_Shift        0.45 m

GC_Flaps_Shift      0.20 m

GC_Gear_Shift       0.05 m

Wing_V              1.5



;

[Params]

;



SpinCxLoss          0.06

SpinCyLoss          0.03



Vmin                170.0 kmh

Vmax                470.0 kmh

VmaxAllowed         750.0 kmh

VmaxH               560.0 kmh at 4500.0 m

VminFLAPS           130.0 kmh

VmaxFLAPS           250.0 kmh

Vz_climb            20.0 ms

V_climb             270.0 kmh

T_turn              25.0 sec

V_turn              340.0 kmh

K_max               13.0

FlapsMult           1.0

FlapsAngSh          10.0



RangeAbility        480 km



SensYaw             0.6

SensPitch           0.7

SensRoll            0.32



;

[Polares]

;



lineCyCoeff         0.091

AOAMinCx_Shift      0.2

Cy0_0               0.15

AOACritH_0          18.0

AOACritL_0          -15.0

CyCritH_0           1.3

CyCritL_0           -0.64417434

CxMin_0             0.0275

parabCxCoeff_0      6.2E-4

Cy0_1               0.55

AOACritH_1          17.0

AOACritL_1          -19.0

CyCritH_1           1.62

CyCritL_1           -0.7

CxMin_1             0.11

parabCxCoeff_1      8.7E-4



slatAOACritHInc     3.0

slatCyCritHInc      1.3

slatParabCxCoeffInc 0.8E-4



parabAngle          5.0

Decline             0.010

maxDistAng          35.0

Bf-109E-4.fmd

PHP Code:


			
;

; Messerschmitt Bf. 109 E-3 Flightmodel

;



;

[Aircraft]

;



Wingspan            9.867 m

Length              8.738 m



;

[Systems]

;



Propulsion          Engine Daimler-Benz DB601A_WM_Komandgerat Propellor VDM Generic

Hydraulics          Source Engine0 Pressure 100 bar Reservoir 8.5 pt

Electrics           Source Engine0 Voltage 25.1 V BatteryCapacity 54 Ah GeneratorOutput 650 sW at 2000 RPM



LandingFlaps        Mechanical Extends 25 sec

Undercarriage       Retractable Hydraulic Extends 5.0 sec Folds Outwards OperatesThrough 320 kmh EmergencySystem PneumaticDischarge SafetyLock Nil SpringsStiffness Main 0.6 Tail 0.6 MaxDragEquivalentS 0.7 m2

WheelBrakes         Hydraulic Efficiency 1.5

Fenster             Mechanical Opens 0.5 sec

PitotHeater         Electrical

LeadingEdgeSlats    Mechanical Automatic Move 0.1 sec ResponseRange 15.0 to 15.01 deg



Hatch0              Mechanical Motion Type SwingingForward Time 2.0 sec Jettison Type Detachable Time 0.2 sec

Hatch1              Mechanical Motion Type Nil Time 0.0 sec Jettison Type Detachable Time 0.2 sec



;

[Controls]

;



Aileron             Slider Threshold 340 kmh

Elevator            Slider Threshold 400 kmh

Rudder              Slider Threshold 400 kmh



AileronTrim         Nil Default 0.017

ElevatorTrim        Slider Range -0.5 to 0.5 Default 0.25

RudderTrim          Nil Default 0.06



EngineThrottle      Slider

EnginePitch         Rocker

EngineMagneto       Switch M0 M1 M2 M12

EngineRadiator      Rocker

EngineOilRadiator   Slider

EngineMix           Toggle

EngineWEP           PushButton



LandingFlaps        Rocker

Undercarriage       Switch Up Neutral Down

UndercarriageEmergency ExpendableSwitch Close Open

WheelBrakes         Slider

Fenster             Toggle

AltimeterPinion     Rocker Range 795 to 1040 Default 1000 mbar

Puppet0PriPitLight  Slider

Puppet0SightLight   Slider

NavSecFrequency     Rocker

Timer0              CyclicSwitch

AcemakerSight       Dimmer Toggle

TankSelector0       Toggle Off On Parked 0 Cruise 1 Selection 0 Flow FuelTank 1 to FuelTank 0 at 1 kg per second Selection 1 Flow FuelTank 1 to FuelTank 0 at 1 kg per second + FuelTank 0 to Engine 0

HydraulicsHandPump  PushButton

PitotHeater         Toggle

Timer0              CyclicSwitch



Puppet0Hatch        Toggle Close Open Selection 0 Closes Hatch 0 Selection 1 Opens Hatch 0

Puppet0Jettison     ExpendableSwitch Off On Selection 1 Sheds Hatch 0 Hatch 1



;

[Instruments]

;



EngineFuelPress     Hydraulic Range 0 to 2 kgcm2

EngineOilPress      Hydraulic Range 0 to 10 kgcm2

EngineOilTemp       Electrical Range 0 to 120 C

EngineWaterTemp     Electrical Range 0 to 120 C

EngineManifoldPress Mechanical Range 0.6 to 1.8 bar

EngineRPM           Electrical Range 600 to 3600 RPM

EnginePropPitch     Mechanical Range 0 to 12 hour

Speedometer         Mechanical Range 0 to 800 kmh Pitot Kollsman

Altimeter           Mechanical Dimension m

MagneticCompass     Mechanical JamAngle 90.0 deg

SlipIndicator       Mechanical Amplitude 12.0 deg

TurnIndicator       Mechanical Source Primary NominalTurnTime 2 min

FuelReserve         Electrical Range 0 to 400 litre

ArtificialHorizon   Mechanical Source Primary Pitch Range -45 to 45 deg Roll Range -181 to 181 deg



GyroFeed            Primary Electrical Secondary Nil



;

[Mass]

;



Empty               2060 kg

TakeOff             2600 kg

Fuel                300 kg

FuelTanks           Aluminum 100 kg Aluminum 200 kg

FuelFillingOrder    Tank 0 Tank 1



;

[Squares]

;



Wing                16.4 m2

Aileron             1.1 m2

Flap                2.0 m2

Stabilizer          1.90 m2

Elevator            1.20 m2

Keel                1.00 m2

Rudder              1.10 m2



;

[Arm]

;



Aileron             2.03 m

Flap                2.04 m

Stabilizer          5.15 m

Keel                5.18 m

Elevator            5.35 m

Rudder              5.45 m

Wing_In             1.25 m

Wing_Mid            2.50 m

Wing_Out            4.10 m

GCenter             0.05 m

GCenterZ            0.00 m

GC_AOA_Shift        0.45 m

GC_Flaps_Shift      0.20 m

GC_Gear_Shift       0.05 m

Wing_V              1.5



;

[Params]

;



SpinCxLoss          0.06

SpinCyLoss          0.03



Vmin                170.0 kmh

Vmax                470.0 kmh

VmaxAllowed         750.0 kmh

VmaxH               560.0 kmh at 4500.0 m

VminFLAPS           130.0 kmh

VmaxFLAPS           250.0 kmh

Vz_climb            20.0 ms

V_climb             270.0 kmh

T_turn              25.0 sec

V_turn              340.0 kmh

K_max               13.0

FlapsMult           1.0

FlapsAngSh          10.0



RangeAbility        480 km



SensYaw             0.6

SensPitch           0.7

SensRoll            0.32



;

[Polares]

;



lineCyCoeff         0.091

AOAMinCx_Shift      0.2

Cy0_0               0.15

AOACritH_0          18.0

AOACritL_0          -15.0

CyCritH_0           1.3

CyCritL_0           -0.64417434

CxMin_0             0.0275

parabCxCoeff_0      6.2E-4

Cy0_1               0.55

AOACritH_1          17.0

AOACritL_1          -19.0

CyCritH_1           1.62

CyCritL_1           -0.7

CxMin_1             0.11

parabCxCoeff_1      8.7E-4



slatAOACritHInc     3.0

slatCyCritHInc      1.3

slatParabCxCoeffInc 0.8E-4



parabAngle          5.0

Decline             0.010

maxDistAng          35.0

TomcatViP · #8 12-21-2011, 05:02 PM

Thx Varra. It seems that as there is no diff I might hve been the victim of my own convictions.

Varrattu · #9 12-21-2011, 11:05 PM

A Bf-109E-1.fmd does not exist ...

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