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[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by Robo.

In my opinion, it is not. You have to outlfy the 109 pilot by great margin and you have to be very good at keeping your energy. Good Bf 109 pilot will give you little chance - my experience at least.

Keep in mind I said angles tactics. Trying to use energy tactics against the 109 is not a good move unless he's already slow or you have a significant altitude advantage.

This is very true, the performance gap between Mk.IIa and Emil is massive

And in my opinion much larger than the gap between the Hurri and the Emil.

Obviously this decision will upset lots of strictly blue pilots - well, deal with it I would say, it's still just a Spitfire.

"Just" a spitfire is fine and dandy until squadrons start using them with good team tactics, and in good numbers. 6 guys, maybe even as few as 4 guys would have the ability to completely decimate the Axis side.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

Keep in mind I said angles tactics. Trying to use energy tactics against the 109 is not a good move unless he's already slow or you have a significant altitude advantage.

No worries, I understand. Using angles tactics against a Hurricane is OK but risky if you meet a good pilot. What I said is that Hurri is not much better at it (my experience and observation) as it's very sluggish at controls, especially rudder and ailerons. Matter of preference, at angles, all depends on how the pilot uses his machine, Hurricane is capable, no doubt.

Using energy tactics is good move at anytime if you know what you're doing. Matter of opinion perhaps and also, I usually try to BnZ the 109s, but even if bounced myself, it is possible to recover and reverse the situation quite often, that was my point. In any situation, you really need to outfly the 109 pilot in order to be succesful as he's got better performing aircraft.

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

And in my opinion much larger than the gap between the Hurri and the Emil.

Absolutely!

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

"Just" a spitfire is fine and dandy until squadrons start using them with good team tactics, and in good numbers. 6 guys, maybe even as few as 4 guys would have the ability to completely decimate the Axis side.

Just like they use the E-4 at the moment, using good team tactics (and swarming airfields in low alt as the AAA is harmless) and in good numbers. 4 guys decimating the Allied side hands down already. Add few kids vulching (alambash! ) and you get the everyday ATAGesque picture.

I am not saying I agree with the Mk.IIa. But if the Emils at least bother to gains some alt fearing the Mk.II before they aproach the English coast, I am happy. You don't see many Blue pilots up high because they don't need to atm.

[drewpee]

I must say I find I can get shot down equally as well in a spit hurry or 109.

[klem]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

I think part of the problem is that the Hurricanes and Spitfire I's roles are reversed, and fresh meat that jumps in wanting to fly the "Saviour of Britain" don't realize while it looks like a Spitfire, it actually flies like the Hurricane, and vice versa. The Hurri is faster, climbs better, but the Spitfire is the more maneuverable. Still, I don't think you should introduce a relative monster "Just for the hell of it for awhile". Why not only allow G.50s for awhile instead? You'll have the same enormous advantage in both performance and numbers. I'm betting most of the blue aces stay away.

Well at the end of the day its ATAGs decision but I may jump into a Spit IIa later this evening if its still there just for the fun of it, when I'll be flying alone.

One thing is for sure, well two things....
I hope the next patch puts the FMs close to where they belong.
If it does, there will still be people claiming the other sides a/c are Uber.

[klem]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

I wouldn't count on the FM's for next patch, I think 1c revised their graphics engine from being completed this current patch (as they thought it would be during the betas) to having one more go at it next patch. I hope they get the dang engine worked out so they can start looking at the game-play problems soon!

You may be right, I just re-read Luthier's post

I’ll conclude our tonight’s broadcast with a few photos. One shows the ongoing work on our FM;

Operative word being 'ongoing'.

Looks like we may have to wait Farber

[klem]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Ugh, who you calling Farber? them's fighting words...

I have no association with the little kids anymore....

I was saving posts, replying to you both. Didn't work did it?

[SEE]

I was on last night - Spit2 were getting killed. Stats didn't seem that much different and quite a few of us stayed with the MK1a and Rotol Hurris.

Seems that one observation is the increasingly large volume of low level attacks on the allied airfields which were getting out of hand. Check out the the thread on ATAG forum regards the introduction of the Spit Mk2 - jeeez there are only five of them!

[ATAG_Dutch]

[QUOTE=SEE;365461 jeeez there are only five of them![/QUOTE]

Yeah, imagine the howls if it was a full squadron!

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Remember, after 3k, our advantages are negated, why would you want to fly up where the other aircraft perform better? We're already lured up there by bombers (for those that hunt them), but other than that, you want to bring the RAF'ers down to your better envelop, and deny them the altitudes where their platforms perform best.

3k?
Negated?

You seem to be wrong, cheesehawk mate

The FTH of Emil is 4500m, at that alt you still outperform any Mk.I RAF fighter. You'll have significant advantage even at 5000+m although you might find it more difficult to spiral climb from them - yet it's still there and you're safe well above 3000m. Any problem - dive to France.

I had many many great fights on ATAG in both RAF or 109 at 4000m (15000ft), unfortunately large group of Emils never bother to climb to reasonable height, because the don't have to. Just full power 500m HDG Hawkinge, Minengeschoss loaded, lots of 'ground' targets.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Yes, the FTH is higher, but if you look the performance charts, the Spits and Hurris catch up at 3000m. Its not the lack of performance in the 109, but the increased performance at those altitudes of the respective opponents. You definitely do not have the advantage at 5k, either in RL or game.

You're wrong I am afraid - the altitude was around 16.000ft as far i recall. Mind you, there is no BCC-O for Mk.Is just yet, so from my experience I'd say that Emil dominates well above 3000m. There si no point or excuse flying them 109s on the deck. I am not arguing though, just saying.