ATAG Dedicated Server is up!

[trumps]

I still much prefer flying my E-1 than the E-4, the 1 is a much steadier gun platform with is 4 mg's than the cannons kicking things around!

Craig

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by Robo.

In my opinion, it is not. You have to outlfy the 109 pilot by great margin and you have to be very good at keeping your energy. Good Bf 109 pilot will give you little chance - my experience at least.

Keep in mind I said angles tactics. Trying to use energy tactics against the 109 is not a good move unless he's already slow or you have a significant altitude advantage.

This is very true, the performance gap between Mk.IIa and Emil is massive

And in my opinion much larger than the gap between the Hurri and the Emil.

Obviously this decision will upset lots of strictly blue pilots - well, deal with it I would say, it's still just a Spitfire.

"Just" a spitfire is fine and dandy until squadrons start using them with good team tactics, and in good numbers. 6 guys, maybe even as few as 4 guys would have the ability to completely decimate the Axis side.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

Keep in mind I said angles tactics. Trying to use energy tactics against the 109 is not a good move unless he's already slow or you have a significant altitude advantage.

No worries, I understand. Using angles tactics against a Hurricane is OK but risky if you meet a good pilot. What I said is that Hurri is not much better at it (my experience and observation) as it's very sluggish at controls, especially rudder and ailerons. Matter of preference, at angles, all depends on how the pilot uses his machine, Hurricane is capable, no doubt.

Using energy tactics is good move at anytime if you know what you're doing. Matter of opinion perhaps and also, I usually try to BnZ the 109s, but even if bounced myself, it is possible to recover and reverse the situation quite often, that was my point. In any situation, you really need to outfly the 109 pilot in order to be succesful as he's got better performing aircraft.

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

And in my opinion much larger than the gap between the Hurri and the Emil.

Absolutely!

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

"Just" a spitfire is fine and dandy until squadrons start using them with good team tactics, and in good numbers. 6 guys, maybe even as few as 4 guys would have the ability to completely decimate the Axis side.

Just like they use the E-4 at the moment, using good team tactics (and swarming airfields in low alt as the AAA is harmless) and in good numbers. 4 guys decimating the Allied side hands down already. Add few kids vulching (alambash! ) and you get the everyday ATAGesque picture.

I am not saying I agree with the Mk.IIa. But if the Emils at least bother to gains some alt fearing the Mk.II before they aproach the English coast, I am happy. You don't see many Blue pilots up high because they don't need to atm.

[Blakduk]

I only get to fly occassionally these days (kids, work, life, etc getting in the way of gaming!) but all my online play is on the ATAG server. I always join on the side that is under-represented, and last weekend for the first time in months i got to fly blue. After flying for approx 1hr i took a break and came back- same old mismatch with blue getting twice the number that red had.
My advice to red fliers- forget your prejudice for Spits! The Spit 1a is a dog (the neg g cutout is much more sensitive than it is in the Hurri)
Jump in a hurricane, get on TS, get some altitude and pick off the vultures as they get down and dirty over Hawkinge and Lympne.
Too many times players are blaming equipment when it's their tactics that are at fault- going one-on-one with a 109E that has higher E and is not being stupid will get you killed.
The advice to anyone playing these games is the same as that given to people who are into autoerotic asphyxiation- dont do it alone, you will die!

[klem]

SWMV I can't disagree with most of your points, I think I acknowledged that the SpitIIa gives reds an unreal advantage, I'd just like it to be with the Reds for a short while
So lets be clear I know its a big advantage. But why not for the reds just for the hell of it for a while.
After the patch (god willing) we can have a different discussion

Yes I've shot down plenty of 109s in a Hurricane where the 109 hasn't been flown to its best advantage but No, the Hurricane cannot outclimb a properly flown 109. True I can almost keep up with it in level speed and perhaps gain on it maybe due to how its flown, I'm not sure, but in climb? No. Believe me I have chased enough to know that. So the properly flown 109 is in no real danger from the Hurricane.

At the moment the only 109s that get shot down are those that are not flown to its strengths or where they are cornered/outnumbered or attacked by an aircraft with energy advantage. Thats not a FM issue its a tactics issue.

CaptainDoggles, bearing in mind we are talking about individual aircraft FMs and assuming your are talking 1v1 of course the Hurricane outclasses the 109 in angles tactics, it will when they are both properly modelled but that's not the best way to fly a 109. When a 109 is properly flown (I don't know how to but I do know I have met them) the Hurricane cannot lay a finger on it. I have to wait for the 109 to make a mistake.

btw we regularly operate at 15000 feet or above and hardly ever see a dicky-bird.

"Just" a spitfire is fine and dandy until squadrons start using them with good team tactics, and in good numbers. 6 guys, maybe even as few as 4 guys would have the ability to completely decimate the Axis side.
Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration, but don't fly alone.

Farber,
by the time of the BoB the Spitfire I wasn't exactly an infant, several improvements like Rotols had been put in on most aircraft although much more was to come. Al Deere in his autobiography describes his first fight with 109Es during the Dunkirk period. He and Johnny Checketts covered a light aircraft rescuing a Squadron CO from the beaches. Johnny went above the low clouds to cover and ran into several (probably two schwarms) of 109Es. He was up to his neck but shot two down before the others made off while one 109E had gone below clouds and fought for several minutes with Al Deere who shot it down. This was in Spitfire Mk1s ! Al Deere was absolutely convinced that in all but climb and dive (mostly cutout problem) the Spitfire I was better than the 109E in that kind of a fight.

So, yes I know the Spit IIa is a big advantage but we don't really have anything to match a properly flown 109. And ATAG are only putting on a few as I understand it.

BUT, roll on the patch

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by klem

Farber,
by the time of the BoB the Spitfire I wasn't exactly an infant, several improvements like Rotols had been put in on most aircraft although much more was to come. Al Deere in his autobiography describes his first fight with 109Es during the Dunkirk period. He and Johnny Checketts covered a light aircraft rescuing a Squadron CO from the beaches. Johnny went above the low clouds to cover and ran into several (probably two schwarms) of 109Es. He was up to his neck but shot two down before the others made off while one 109E had gone below clouds and fought for several minutes with Al Deere who shot it down. This was in Spitfire Mk1s ! Al Deere was absolutely convinced that in all but climb and dive (mostly cutout problem) the Spitfire I was better than the 109E in that kind of a fight.

So, yes I know the Spit IIa is a big advantage but we don't really have anything to match a properly flown 109. And ATAG are only putting on a few as I understand it.

BUT, roll on the patch

Aircraft dont fly themselves...

Next patch will be interesting.

[trumps]

Originally Posted by CWMV

EDIT: More on this, what great injustice were you attempting to correct for "the community as a whole" by introducing the x-wing?

LOL, sorry mate you have got it all wrong, this is going to be the ANTI X-wing, well thats the theory anyway.

Craig