109 advice needed (climb)

[reflected]

Thanks for the tips, gents!

So I should practice prop management some more, but I was right in using 2400-2500 RPM and WEP. I should also practice my rad management- it was fully open the whole time.

I'll keep it in mind to climb either at 400 or at 250 - 300 was a poor choice


That being said. I fly all planes, Spit Hurri, 109 - sometimes even the 110 and something is not right.

Let's assume that the Spit FM is about right - then the Hurrican is way too good. To be honest I don't feel too much difference. especially not such a big one as described by personal accounts.

As for the 109 - somethig is wrong there too. When flying a Spit or a Hurri I'm on their tail in no time, they have no chance to escape, only to dive away. When flying a 109, it feels like a brick. Even if I'm gentle on teh stick (FFB) I shudder and lose altitude, while they accelerate in turns twice as tight as mine. Shouldn't the 109 and the Spit be a bit more closely matched? I know the Spit turned better but with sufficient E the 109 should be able to keep up for more than 90 degrees, shouldn't it? (BTW, what's the best turning speed of the 109? )

These are only my experience, obviously I didn't fly these planes 100% correctly, and I have no idea if the fella in the other crate was a noob or an ace.

Having said all this I realize they're working on the Spit FM now? If they make it better it will be OK compared to the Hurri, but will eat 109s for breakfast. Nerf it and it will be worse than the Hurri. Meh...let's just wait and see.

[Flanker35M]

S!

I would wait for the FM revision Luthier mentioned as now the FM's are whatever..

[drewpee]

I agree that until the flight model is deemed to be accurate its some times hard to use historical tactics. The other problem is the amount of tossa activity when large egos add their (cough) advice. Other than that genuine advice should always be considered and appreciated.

[KeBrAnTo]

Originally Posted by reflected

As for the 109 - somethig is wrong there too. When flying a Spit or a Hurri I'm on their tail in no time, they have no chance to escape, only to dive away. When flying a 109, it feels like a brick.

Putting the FM aside, what makes the difference is the pilot m8.
A good 109 pilot will put you in serious trouble always, I do not think is as easy as you seem to have the feeling, maybe you got in a dogfight with pilots which are not "experten" or are not used to the plane.

Diving away its something you have to decide depending on the circumstances of the combat, and sometimes is the only way to escape from 3 or 4 Spits or Hurris that got you surrounded.

I always try to dive as the last option, always play E-game, that's the way to fly a 109 IMHO.

[trumps]

The key to flying the 109 successfully is discipline, and attention to details, get sucked into the British fighters game through impatience or not protecting your 'E' and you are easy pickings. The British fighters on the otherhand tend to be lazy to fly, as a good deal of 109's will get lured into their combat envelope through the above reasons, then it is just a matter for the spit to get inside them and hose them down.
Unless the spit/ hurri has a clear E or numbers advantage chances are if the 109 is going to get shot down it will be because he sets himself up to lose!

Cheers
Craig

[TomcatViP]

As it was said as you aknowledged 300 for a climb was a bad choice.

400kph is a good exit strategy.

Another one is to use the superior slow speed climb of the 109 (historicaly true) and climb above the nose of your oponent with a speed gradulllty reduced from 250 down to 210. Use lazy scissor to force the Hurri/Spit to seat of their tail (high AoA) and stay in their 10/2hr. Tht way you will gain in 1 min 500m that is enough to roll over them. Mind that some Spit and some Hurri hve some kind of relaxed gravity and will be able to pull the moment you roll into them like straying rockets. But apparts those funny comics it a win win strategy. At least if you hve enough time to do the trick. 1 min is a very long time in a high threat environement

WHat I do usually is to draw my prey away from any fight in a little box of airspace were I know there will be no one. I do that using the fast climb trick. Then I start a wide spirall to force him to get AoA (hence drag). Usually you'll gain 90° and 100m easiliy that way when the speed will hev been down to 250. Then use the Tac described above.

Note you can still do that in a Hurri. This tac work even with a fair amount of E and power disadvantage (I used that in my IL2 A8 against UFO Spits MkIX 2K (singing the Michael knight song))

Regarding the CoD's SPit banking : a spit banking hard can climb just like a spit wing level. So keep that in mind in any fight (more can be said on some individuals).

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

Mind that some Spit and some Hurri hve some kind of relaxed gravity and will be able to pull the moment you roll into them. But apparts those comics it a win win strategy. AT least if you hve enough time to do the trick. 1 min is a very long time in a high threat environement

Great advice in your post Tomcat, except for above - I will translate for others if you don't mind:

Some Spifires and some Hurricanes are flying it smart and won't be trying to follow a 109 in climbing spiral to stall underneath him and fall off like autumn leaves. They will keep their speed high enough for a evasive maneuver (usually pulling up and turn appropriately to stay away from his guns.

My advice is - use vertical (what Tomcat and others said) and the sun (son works great in CoD) so he can't see you and / or evade your attack even if he keeps his speed.

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

So keep that in mind in any fight (more can be said on some individuals).

No, it can not. The key for RAF is to fly maneuvers clean, trim well, be patient, keep your E high enough, lag displacement rolls, cutting turns, learn how to get close enough even for a brief moment, shoot well.

[6S.Manu]

People keep saying it's the pilot and not the plane: but what if both the pilots are experten? What if a pilot use Hurries or Spitfires the way WW2 warbirds has to be flown?
BnZ and energy fighting is not a prerogative of the 109's pilot... above all during the BoB, when Spitfire and 109 were quite similar.

Because many problems come when the FMs can't reproduce the RL advantages and some notable tactics do not work as the pilot is expecting (what about IL2 1946 and his Fw190 Anton's acceleration?). There is a long time cadet in my squad that I often pick up because he tries to reproduce the manouvres he read on the aviation books, dying of course: after many hours finally he has learned to not trust the ingame planes since they are not flying like the real ones.
And of course there are actually many more aces online than during the real BoB! After all we have died so many times, learning something at every own mistake: I still remember the first time Jaws owned me in his Fw during my first days.

But of course in RL the "it's the pilot, not the plane" is clearly valid. During the BoB there were not some irrealistic aspects we have in the game: alarming sound radar, poor target visibility, missing fatigue, rubbery pilot's heads, complex EM and of course, fear of death.

In real life I would fly with the the better pilots, ingame give me the better planes instead. Of course experience can make the difference, but not if it's an "experten vs experten" things.

[KeBrAnTo]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

People keep saying it's the pilot and not the plane: but what if both the pilots are experten? What if a pilot use Hurries or Spitfires the way WW2 warbirds has to be flown?
BnZ and energy fighting is not a prerogative of the 109's pilot... above all during the BoB, when Spitfire and 109 were quite similar.

Because many problems come when the FMs can't reproduce the RL advantages and some notable tactics do not work as the pilot is expecting (what about IL2 1946 and his Fw190 Anton's acceleration?). There is a long time cadet in my squad that I often pick up because he tries to reproduce the manouvres he read on the aviation books, dying of course: after many hours finally he has learned to not trust the ingame planes since they are not flying like the real ones.
And of course there are actually many more aces online than during the real BoB! After all we have died so many times, learning something at every own mistake: I still remember the first time Jaws owned me in his Fw during my first days.

But of course in RL the "it's the pilot, not the plane" is clearly valid. During the BoB there were not some irrealistic aspects we have in the game: alarming sound radar, poor target visibility, missing fatigue, rubbery pilot's heads, complex EM and of course, fear of death.

In real life I would fly with the the better pilots, ingame give me the better planes instead. Of course experience can make the difference, but not if it's an "experten vs experten" things.

I suppose that in this situation either wins the best pilot or the one who makes less mistakes in that particular dogfight, regardeless the FM of the plane.

Piloting a better plane (or better FM if you want) only makes things a little bit easier from my point of view. If you are face to face with a guy who is good piloting his plane you're gonna have to do your best in order to shoot him down regardeless if the FM of your plane gives you a little advantage over the other plane.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by KeBrAnTo

Piloting a better plane (or better FM if you want) only makes things a little bit easier from my point of view. If you are face to face with a guy who is good piloting his plane you're gonna have to do your best in order to shoot him down regardeless if the FM of your plane gives you a little advantage over the other plane.

+1 on tis mate!

But still, as for what Manu asked - equally good pilots in Bf 109E and Hawker Hurricane with Rotol prop at cca co-alt co-E = 109 pilot wins hands down (imho).