Sure hope Oleg gets with the program

[Chivas]

Nice post Baghr

I believe people are the same no matter where they live. There is good and bad in all of us but we understand what is right by treating others as you would hope they treat you. Our main endevor is to put shelter over our heads and feed our families. We come together in groups usually for a common purpose, but sometimes leaders of these groups subvert that purpose to fit their own agendas. The group can subvert the individuals natural instinct to do right.

[Blackdog_kt]

Baghr, that's an amazing post. I always hoped that people are not all the same and we can't confine them to simple stereotypes, thank you for reaffirming my beliefs in the positive side of human nature. I think there's no greater strength of character than conceding the benefit of doubt to a person with an opposing viewpoint, trying to see both sides of the coin so to speak (or all sides of the rubic's cube in the case of politics )

People go to wars and come back all sorts of different than before they went there. Some will come back as weak and ravaged men, others will become cold blooded killers and some will be turned into mere animals, functioning only on the instinct of survival. It's good to know that some people actually come back wiser for all the difficulties they've had to go through.

[Baghr]

Thank you for the kind words. I feel there are many more that feel the way I do than what you would believe.

I have remembered all my life my words that were once said by a very wise man (my Father)

"If you close your mouth and open you ears its amazing what can be heard if you try."

I have lived by this during most of my life and it so far has worked pretty well.


edited cus it didnt make sense-I must be tired.....

[Triad773]

Many like Pushkin; I myself like Dostoevsky.

I knew last week from growing up from Cold War generation shooting down American Satellite was nothing but old dog with new tricks. Well perhaps I show my age, as well as skepticism.

Here's hoping it all works out to everyone's satisfaction. The tables have turned after a fashion: before the US had all the money for weapons dev.- now, with Russia's oil and natural gas wealth (as well as China's cash influx from displaced work,) the situation is now reversed.

What brought down the Iron Curtain but lack of current resources? Who really knows what the future holds?

I'd just be happy to have a 4.09 final. Call me a simple man, but it is a means to happiness.

~S~

Triad

[Sir-Loopalot]

I like to see that a game can force people to think about politics.

To all the americans around here: Dont get me wrong, i like the USA and Canada, was there for several times and had nice days there with american friends, BUT:

The problem that i see is that every US citizen thinks that the US as a country are the
"good ones".
There are no "good countries" in the big game.( OK maybe Switzerland
Look at the "Weapon of Mass Destruction" thing with Irak.Ok, Saddam was an Asshole and the world has one Dictator less today, but The USA started a war based on a Lie.( BTW, the USA is the only country that used Nukes on civilians, TWICE!)
Look at the Vietnam War, where US Bombers dropped more bombs and agent orange on (mostly) civilians than every country dropped during WW2.
Look at the several Dictatorships that were supported by the US, in South America , Arabia and Asia, just to enforce US Interests.
Look at the Democratic Iranian President that was Kicked out of Power and replaced with the "SCHA" by the CIA in the 1950`s ( or 60`s dunno). And after the islamic revolution in Iran, the US Governement enforced both sides, the Iran AND the Irak to start a looooong war that killed hundreds of thousands.
Look at uncountable other occasions where the US of A started conflicts all over the world with the help of its numerous Agencies, just to enforce US economical or political goals.

I have to say it again, i like most of the american people i met since now, but i do not like the US as a global Player.
OK, other countries have done bad things too, ESPECIALY MINE, but there is no other country i know where nearly EVERY citizen thinks that all the wars were fought for good reasons.
I dont like the fact that most of the world hates America nowadays,i liked the world more when i was young and loved America without any doubts, but you will not win other countries hearts by intelligent-bombing the Haters away!
The US fought more wars in the past 100 years than every other country,and now they are the most powerful country in the world. And the most behated. Isnt that something to think about?

[Blackdog_kt]

I think it all boils down to being active as a citizen. You can't correct your country's wrongs on a global scale if you don't work in parallel to correct them on a domestic scale. America is a powerful country built on the honest sweat and toil of its people, but also on the blood of many people including their own. And it happens to a certain degree in every country out there.

Why is the US able to have such a powerful, professional army? Because it's the domestic policies that enforce this on the citizen. If i come from a disadvantaged background, more so for minorities, if i have no insurance, no job, no health care, no means to feed my family and no money to adequately support myself through college what are my options for a good and dependable paycheck? I either go for big money with an uncertainty factor by crossing to the wrong side of the law, or settle for less money but in a heavily regulated environment and enlist in the professional army. Or flip burgers for the rest of my life.

Professional armies are good for a country to have because the personnel accumulates training and experience, but a 100% professional army dilutes the basic idea behind an army. And that is that every man will do his part if the need arises for the defence of certain values and their homes. In the case of the US, a bunch of people will skip going to the army because they can afford a better standard of living and leave it to those with a higher sense of responsibility and those with no better means to pursue a career. In my humble opinion, a mix of drafted conscripts and professionals is best, because it will still accumulate the needed experience among its professional ranks, while still containing enough civilians to doubt and oppose its use as a mercenary tool for some powermongers that sit in an office and talk on the phone while we're out there getting killed. And while they can't do much while they are in the army, they still have something that worries the suits, a voice, a brain and a vote.

[nearmiss]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

I think it all boils down to being active as a citizen. You can't correct your country's wrongs on a global scale if you don't work in parallel to correct them on a domestic scale. America is a powerful country built on the honest sweat and toil of its people, but also on the blood of many people including their own. And it happens to a certain degree in every country out there.

Why is the US able to have such a powerful, professional army? Because it's the domestic policies that enforce this on the citizen. If i come from a disadvantaged background, more so for minorities, if i have no insurance, no job, no health care, no means to feed my family and no money to adequately support myself through college what are my options for a good and dependable paycheck? I either go for big money with an uncertainty factor by crossing to the wrong side of the law, or settle for less money but in a heavily regulated environment and enlist in the professional army. Or flip burgers for the rest of my life.

Professional armies are good for a country to have because the personnel accumulates training and experience, but a 100% professional army dilutes the basic idea behind an army. And that is that every man will do his part if the need arises for the defence of certain values and their homes. In the case of the US, a bunch of people will skip going to the army because they can afford a better standard of living and leave it to those with a higher sense of responsibility and those with no better means to pursue a career. In my humble opinion, a mix of drafted conscripts and professionals is best, because it will still accumulate the needed experience among its professional ranks, while still containing enough civilians to doubt and oppose its use as a mercenary tool for some powermongers that sit in an office and talk on the phone while we're out there getting killed. And while they can't do much while they are in the army, they still have something that worries the suits, a voice, a brain and a vote.

Professional armies are not good over the long term here are a few reasons.

After years of counting on mercenary armies the people of the country become apathetic about the people in the military.

After years none of the politicians are true patriots, because they are from priviledged backgrounds. It is already becoming a fact in America, that only the old timers who have served in the military empathize with soldiers and understand what it is to get shot at.

Civilians who have never had their life on their line for themselves and their country just cannot know what getting shot at does to you. Facing an enemy intent on killing you, cringing in a foxhole with rpgs going off all around you knowing that it's just going to be divine providence if you get out alive. Well, that puts real emphasis on the price of freedom.

Overtime the professional military always starts taking power... afterall who can stop them. It has been that way since the history of war. When the lack of respect for the military or other pervasive reasons begin to creep in the military begins to change as well. The military begins to protect itself, when the citizens it is created to serve.... no longer respect it.

Professional armies have a history of creating wars and problems, because WAR is their business, that's what they do. It doesn't often take a lot to provoke a war. Think about it.. America has from what I understand 38,000 troops in Korea. What if a couple of not-so-sane generals got to thinking and decided to go after those commie bastards across the 38th parallel border between N and S Korea. They could start an unprecedented incident, and they might very well be able to cover it up. GW Bush did it, and now the TV news has uncovered and documented the GW Bush administration of the American government was guilty of telling 900+ lies to confirm Saddam Hussein's support of terrorism.

-------------------------

Professional armies have always been started and created from the ground up with the poor, disadvantaged and often less intelligent people. THis is not new. It has always been that way. The elite, well educated and priviledged when they serve are always officers, and are awarded the elite commands, etc.

This a fact. I heard a very well educated American woman talking about the military and the soldiers dying in Iraq. She said, " Soldiers know the risk, they volunteered to go into the military". I said to her, that was the stupid. I asked her how many 18-22 years olds have any idea what is to be shot at or attacked by an enemy. Is there anyway those young people can know what they're up against?

I indicated there is a way, which of course would never be done... Make every recruit crawl through a gauntlet about 200 yards of bare ground covered with barbed wire and pop off ordinance all around (at safe distance from the recruits) and have 50 caliber machine guns straffing just above the barbed wire. If the prospective soldier lifted his head, butt or anything too high there would be a 50 caliber imprint on him/her for the rest of life.

Then when the prospective soldier finished ask them if they still want to go into the military. They wouldn't have very many volunteers after that little controlled experiment.

Getting shot at sucks and there is no way you know what it's like until you experience it. There is nothing worse than war.