Another Red Arrows Incident..

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

AFAIK on the Hawk you're shot through the canopy anyway, the explosive charges that run on the canopy are meant to destroy it before the ejection sequence starts.
It would be interesting to know whether the plane was parked, just returned from a flight or was about to go for one, since one of the first thing the ground crews normally do is disarming the ejector seat by means of the safety pins (there should be 3 or 4 of them?).

yes but that's what I was saying, if it was a malfunction then the MDC probably wasn't set off, it would also be apparent that the aircraft had either not begun taxying or had just parked up..I say this because the aircraft didn't continue uncontrolled....it just looked parked up...but the canopy was closed....just missing the front section of glass.

[seaeye]

I used to work on the Mk.12 version of these seats, fitted to Harriers.

With all the safety pins in place, the seat is safe and cannot under any circumstances be ejected from the aircraft. So some of the pins, or all of them must have been removed. Also, I was told during my training that if the canopy MDC failed to initiate, the seat would push through the canopy regardless. The idea being, it's better to risk getting cut up by the canopy rather than simply crashing with the aircraft.

What has been reported (unconfirmed) in the UK is that the seat ejected while taxiing, but the parachute failed to deploy. Based on this infomation only it appears that some or all of the pins were out, and what has happened is a freak occurance. Initiated by the pilot or not, the drogue chute failed to deploy. If the drogue gun safety pin had been inadvertently left fitted, this could have the effect that has been reported.

Of course all this is speculation, but as I have actual experience of maintaining seats like the MK.10 it really made me wonder what might have gone wrong.

Here's a nice bit of info on the seat: Martin Baker - Mk.10

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by seaeye

I used to work on the Mk.12 version of these seats, fitted to Harriers.

With all the safety pins in place, the seat is safe and cannot under any circumstances be ejected from the aircraft. So some of the pins, or all of them must have been removed. Also, I was told during my training that if the canopy MDC failed to initiate, the seat would push through the canopy regardless. The idea being, it's better to risk getting cut up by the canopy rather than simply crashing with the aircraft.

What has been reported (unconfirmed) in the UK is that the seat ejected while taxiing, but the parachute failed to deploy. Based on this infomation only it appears that some or all of the pins were out, and what has happened is a freak occurance. Initiated by the pilot or not, the drogue chute failed to deploy. If the drogue gun safety pin had been inadvertently left fitted, this could have the effect that has been reported.

Of course all this is speculation, but as I have actual experience of maintaining seats like the MK.10 it really made me wonder what might have gone wrong.

Here's a nice bit of info on the seat: Martin Baker - Mk.10

yeah, even if there's an MDC failure, you have spears on top of the seat which are supposed to break through, isn't it?

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

yeah, even if there's an MDC failure, you have spears on top of the seat which are supposed to break through, isn't it?

There are but I wouldn't fancy being dragged through a broken canopy.

[Ze-Jamz]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

There are but I wouldn't fancy being dragged through a broken canopy.

Not a nice thought at all..

2 incidents in no time at all..crying shame and thoughts go out to their familys

[seaeye]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

yeah, even if there's an MDC failure, you have spears on top of the seat which are supposed to break through, isn't it?

Yes, that's correct.

When these seats go wrong it is usually a result of a maintenance error or not sticking to procedure. It's a terrible thing to happen, but thankfully it doesn't happen very often when we're talking about these ejection seats at least.

Red Arrows are having a really sh*tty year, not least the families involved with both incidents. Very sad indeed.

[ATAG_Doc]

what's this button do...

[epoch]

Originally Posted by timej31

what's this button do...

I so wish you were standing in front of me right now.

[Herbs107]

Back in the 80's a RAAF Mirage 3's seat went off when it was in for maintenance in a hangar. At the time a engineer was standing on it and all 3 safety pins were in place. The poor guy didnt stand a chance! The seat was a Martin Baker, they never found out what caused it to go off, but during the investigation they also found that the pressure required to deploy the seat in a ejection using either of the igniter handles was so much that a normal person couldnt set it off. During their career with the RAAF a few Mirages were lost where the pilot never ejected, this may or may not have been the cause.