radiators have no influence on speed

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by David198502

i don't take it personal...

S!

Originally Posted by David198502

but it should make a difference whether the rads are fully open or almost closed....

And maybe it does..

But it may be due to pilot error, or it maybe so small that it is beyond your ability to make note of it, hence the need to log the data.

With that said

I noticed you didn't list your real world data reference.. Is it safe to assume you have one? If so, how much difference in top speed are we talking about here?

10?
20?
30?
40?
50?

If it is less than 50, now take a look at the resolution of the cockpit gauges.. That alone can be a source of a good +/-20mph error.. Just another good reason to log the data

Originally Posted by David198502

the only difference it makes is that you can overheat your engine with the latter

As it should

Originally Posted by David198502

, but not in speed

Maybe.. maybe not.. No real proof has been provided as of yet IMHO

[Flanker35M]

S!

Well, Helmut Lipfert said the radiator flaps on his Bf109G slowed the plane down as much as 40-60km/h and used them sometimes to avoid passing a slower target. Anecdotal sure, but seems that the radiators would cause some extra drag thus less speed.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

S!

Well, Helmut Lipfert said the radiator flaps on his Bf109G slowed the plane down as much as 40-60km/h and used them sometimes to avoid passing a slower target. Anecdotal sure, but seems that the radiators would cause some extra drag thus less speed.

Just to be clear

I am not saying open rads should not cause more drag, and thus less speed

Far from!

All I am saying is that without logging the data, the sim pilot alone can cause a 40-60kph diff in speed. Thus the 'thing' you are looking for is in the noise of the human error.

[TomcatViP]

Hi Dav,

I don't see the same here. Nearly closing fully the rads of my 109 is what give me the 500-kph.

Did you close the oil rad as well and fly the ball centered ? This does impact the speed by raising the drag dramatically IMHO

S!

[David198502]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

Hi Dav,

I don't see the same here. Nearly closing fully the rads of my 109 is what give me the 500-kph.

Did you close the oil rad as well and fly the ball centered ? This does impact the speed by raising the drag dramatically IMHO

S!

well yes i have the oil rads as much closed as possible too.regarding the ball centered...no
i dont have rudder pedals yet, so therefore i have the rudder set on a hatswitch on my joystick, which is not really precise, because its devided into steps.
but without changing anything during flight, except opening the water rads, the speed will not decrease.and i zoomed into the gauges to look if it makes a minor difference.but i just couldnt find any in speed.

oh and ace i will not argue with you...you dont have to believe me...you can try it by yourself if you want to, and if you want you can call it pilot error,...i dont care.

[KG26_Alpha]

Providing a track is usually the best way to observe bugs claimed by pilots.

Also "usually" some one will try to replicate your observations and confirm it.

looks like this threads all about standing around puffing on pipes drinking tea and generally hmming and ahhhing.



Bring forth a chart monkey please...............



.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

Providing a track is usually the best way to observe bugs claimed by pilots.

Also "usually" some one will try to replicate your observations and confirm it.

looks like this threads all about standing around puffing on pipes drinking tea and generally hmming and ahhhing.

Agreed, a track file is the minimum thing that should be provided when making a claim of an FM error. In that upon observing said track 9 out of 10 can be debunked within the first min of viewing, as in you can see the sim test pilot made a error

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

Bring forth a chart monkey please................

Agreed! Log the data as you fly, you will be amazed at the errors you can make!

[ACE-OF-ACES]

First thing to note..

Tom does notice a difference
David does NOT notice a difference

So who should we belive?

Answer, neither!

Why?

For all the reasons I have already stated, and the fact that some are seeing a difference and some are not only reinforces the need to log your data during flight

Originally Posted by David198502

well yes i have the oil rads as much closed as possible too. regarding the ball centered...no

Having the ball centered is one of those 'pilot errors' I was referring to.. Little things like this can add up

Originally Posted by David198502

i don't have rudder pedals yet, so therefore i have the rudder set on a hatswitch on my joystick, which is not really precise, because its devided into steps.

Keynote.. not really precise

Originally Posted by David198502

but without changing anything during flight, except opening the water rads, the speed will not decrease.

Its the things your changing that you don't realize your changing that can make the difference, as noted in the Ki61 case, most sim pilots are not holding their altitude as well as they think they are.

Originally Posted by David198502

and i zoomed into the gauges to look if it makes a minor difference. but i just couldn't find any in speed.

Which goes back to that resolution thing I mentioned

Originally Posted by David198502

oh and ace i will not argue with you...you don't have to believe me...

Who is arguing?

And I am not agreeing with you or disagreeing with you. I am simply pointing out the FACT that the error your looking for may be in your nearest mirror

Originally Posted by David198502

you can try it by yourself if you want to, and if you want you can call it pilot error,...i don't care.

And I don't care that you don't care!

Oh, and I am still waiting on your 'data' as in how much are we talking about here?

10?
20?
30?
40?

If you don't know in advance how big of a difference you are suppose to see, than how will you know it when you see it!

And you should take pause here and consider the fact that Tom 'is' seeing a difference..

So with that said..

Are you calling Tom a liar?

[David198502]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

Hi Dav,

I don't see the same here. Nearly closing fully the rads of my 109 is what give me the 500-kph.

Did you close the oil rad as well and fly the ball centered ? This does impact the speed by raising the drag dramatically IMHO

S!

mh well i dont get the 109s to reach 500kph in level flight.except if i push the nose slightly down for some seconds and level out at 500kph.but i cannot maintain that speed.it will slowly decrease again to 450kph if i dont loose altitude.

[6S.Tamat]

so actually the fact that an hurricane is without really a big problem attached to the tail of an emil is because the emil pilots are not good pilots.
Sure.
I always knew that hopping on an hurricane i would have been a better pilot.