109 e4 performance

Lol, Robo. Are you a manufacturer?

[Crumpp]

Therefore I don't think it would be wise to get data from the manufacturer specs

That is the best standard in the aircraft industry.

That is the performance Mtt's guaranteed by contract to the RLM its airplanes would perform. If an airplane did not fall within that +/- 5% then the RLM did not pay for it or accept it as one of the airplanes it purchased from Mtt.

Each airframe was test flown before it was accepted for Luftwaffe service and it had to meet that minimum specification.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

That is the best standard in the aircraft industry.

That is the performance Mtt's guaranteed by contract to the RLM its airplanes would perform. If an airplane did not fall within that +/- 5% then the RLM did not pay for it or accept it as one of the airplanes it purchased from Mtt.

Each airframe was test flown before it was accepted for Luftwaffe service and it had to meet that minimum specification.

Alright, I think we should use the data specified by the manufacturer when they tried to get that contract then.

[SG1_Lud]

Originally Posted by Robo.

Alright, I think we should use the data specified by the manufacturer when they tried to get that contract then.

If it is a question of credibility, between the manufacturer data and that "test" done in France, I trust more in the manufacturer's, for two reasons:

1) if you read in the detail the french test, is clear that it was done far from the conditions you want for a test.

2) I havent heard of a single LW report complaining about the manufacturer's specifications being wrong.

Cheers!

[SNAFU]

Well, manufacturers tend to stick with margins specified and use them, if they have the quality system giving them the ability to mangage the narrow gab. If 500km/h +/-5% on ground level was specified, I would expect the standard plane to leave the shops testified to be able to reach 475km/h, but not one km/h more.

[Crumpp]

able to reach 475km/h, but not one km/h more.

Really???!!!?

[Crumpp]

I havent heard of a single LW report complaining about the manufacturer's specifications being wrong.

It definitely gets fixed if it does occur. Focke Wulf had an issue with one of its subcontractors, Dornier (NDW) not meeting specifications.

It was discovered when the Luftwaffe was rejecting a large number of aircraft. The complaint was excessive vibration and fuel consumption. It generated several reports on the issue and was fixed promptly. It caused NDW to suffer greatly increased oversight and they almost lost their contract.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by SNAFU

If 500km/h +/-5% on ground level was specified, I would expect the standard plane to leave the shops testified to be able to reach 475km/h, but not one km/h more.

That is my opinion, too.

Originally Posted by LUD

2) I havent heard of a single LW report complaining about the manufacturer's specifications being wrong.

They wouldn't complain to you, dude with a 109 in the avatar

Originally Posted by SNAFU

Well, manufacturers tend to stick with margins specified and use them, if they have the quality system giving them the ability to mangage the narrow gab. If 500km/h +/-5% on ground level was specified, I would expect the standard plane to leave the shops testified to be able to reach 475km/h, but not one km/h more.

concerning this: I think it would have been a dangerous policy from an industrial point of view if they aimed at 475 kmh while they guaranteed 500 +/-25 kmh.

We know that during production of the plane (all parts, some coming from suppliers not under quality control of the Bayrische Flugzeugwerke) and the engine (all parts, some coming from suppliers not under quality control of Daimler-Benz) variations occur (that's why each part will have its own specs +/- acceptance margins). When all parts assembled it will lead to a performance that will vary from one plane to another. Now if they had aimed at being at the lower limit they would have ended up with planes that would not have met the specs and therefore increased the number of planes rejected by the customer. This is imho something that someone who wants to run his company profitable wants not to happen.

If one reads the chart by the French one should assume that they could have reached about 480 kmh on deck. At 500m they are at 494 kmh.

[Al Schlageter]

Auszüge aus Flugzeugdatenblatt (aircraft data sheet) Bf 109 E-1, E-3 nach L.Dv.556/3 @ http://www.rolfwolf.de/daten/E4/Emil.html

Motorleistungen DB601A

Kurzleistung (1 min) 1100PS bei 2400 U/min 1.4 ata

Startleistung 990PS bei 2400 U/min 1.30 ata

Steig/Kampflleistung 910PS bei 2300 U/min 1.23 ata

Volldruckhöhe 4000m

How do the speeds match for:

Höchstgeschwindigkeiten in Steig/Kampfleistung

0km - 460km/h

1km - 480km/h

2km - 500km/h

3km - 520km/h

4km - 540km/h

5km - 555km/h

6km - 555km/h

7km - 550km/h

If the Höchstzulässige Horizontal-Bodengeschwindigkeit (Maximum horizontal ground velocity) is 485km/h, how can the max speed at 0km be 500kph?