Luthier Update Clarification Please

[ElAurens]

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

. He probably doesn't even own CoD,

He does indeed, and is an accomplished pilot as well.

Look, Ace's style may seem abrasive, but if he was posting about "how we all got ripped off by Oleg, 1C or the tooth fairy", you all would be patting him on the back.

He properly explained what the DX11 API is, how it's used in the sim, and how there is nothing factually wrong with anything written by 1C or Oleg. So far all every one on the other side have done is post about their opinion, feeling, interpretation/misinterpretation of what was "promised".

Cheers.

Originally Posted by ElAurens

He does indeed, and is an accomplished pilot as well.

Look, Ace's style may seem abrasive, but if he was posting about "how we all got ripped off by Oleg, 1C or the tooth fairy", you all would be patting him on the back.

He properly explained what the DX11 API is, how it's used in the sim, and how there is nothing factually wrong with anything written by 1C or Oleg. So far all every one on the other side have done is post about their opinion, feeling, interpretation/misinterpretation of what was "promised".

Cheers.

then again he said I was wrong when I told him the sim was released in alpha state, that was unplayable on most machines, lacking proper AA etc....and all that is true...

[JG52Uther]

Good news then El, another sale is always welcome. Luckily he is in another time zone, so I will never see him online. Never did it il2.
Would I pat anyone on the back? No. And you know what they say about opinions. Everyone has one.

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

Good news then El, another sale is always welcome. Luckily he is in another time zone, so I will never see him online. Never did it il2.
Would I pat anyone on the back? No. And you know what they say about opinions. Everyone has one.

really who cares what he thinks....i wont feed the c.... anymore

[Ze-Jamz]

Originally Posted by Tvrdi

really who cares what he thinks....i wont feed the c.... anymore

+1

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

He does indeed, and is an accomplished pilot as well.

ACE-OF-ACES even!

Originally Posted by ElAurens

Look, Ace's style may seem abrasive, but if he was posting about "how we all got ripped off by Oleg, 1C or the tooth fairy", you all would be patting him on the back.

Probably a lot of truth in that!

That is the problem people like me face when ever we post the FACTS in oposition to the FICTION. The folks on the FICTION side are always going to be upset.

Originally Posted by ElAurens

He properly explained what the DX11 API is, how it's used in the sim,

Well I can not take the credit for that, this is one case where Microsoft actually did a good job in their documentation. Thus all I had to do was cut-n-paste what any of the nay-sayers could have found on the Microsoft website themselves, had they actually to the 5 to 10 mins to goggle it

Originally Posted by ElAurens

and how there is nothing factually wrong with anything written by 1C or Oleg.

That I did do!

Originally Posted by ElAurens

So far all every one on the other side have done is post about their opinion, feeling, interpretation/misinterpretation of what was "promised".

Agreed 100%

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by LoBiSoMeM

But DirectX11 support was advertised

Actually that is not true..

The good news is I think I have figured out why you and others are having so much trouble understanding this simple issue.

It is because you keep leaving out the API part in DX11 API.

These kind of mistakes happen a lot to those who choose to 'comment' on something without 'quoting' it

With that said allow me to provided you the quote you are referring to, i.e.

Originally Posted by UBI

THE BEST OF TECHNOLOGY FOR ULTIMATE REALISM
New 3D engine – Latest-gen graphics engine with DX10 and DX11 API support. Huge variety of photorealistic ground vehicles, buildings and other environmental elements recreate minute details of 1940s Europe.

I took the liberty of colorizing the pertinent parts

As you can see it says 'DX11 API support.' NOT 'DX11 support.'

As I pointed out back on page 22.. DX11-API support does not mean the game actually use DX11 specific features!

In my own words DX11-API provides something previous DX API versions did not provide. That being what Microsoft calls 'feature levels'

But don't take my word for it! Here is the direct quote from the Microsoft web site.

Originally Posted by MS

Getting Started with DirectX Graphics
Microsoft DirectX graphics provides a set of APIs that you can use to create games and other high-performance multimedia applications. DirectX graphics includes support for high-performance 2-D and 3-D graphics.

For 3-D graphics, use the Microsoft Direct3D 11 API. Even if you have Microsoft Direct3D 9-level or Microsoft Direct3D 10-level hardware, you can use the Direct3D 11 API and target a feature level 9_x or feature level 10_x device.

I took the liberty of colorizing the pertinent parts

Note it says 'Even if' you have DX09, DX10 hardware you can use the DX11-API software to and target DX09 and DX10 'feature levels'

This is key..

Using the DX11-API the developer can 'choose' the level of DirectX 'features' to use.

So 1C can be using the DX11-API but limit the 'feature levels to DX10. Which debunks the 'myth' that states because 1C listed DX11-API support it means CoD has to be a DX11 game.

If your still confused as to what 'feature levels' mean read the following Microsoft direct quote

Originally Posted by MS

Direct3D 11 on Downlevel Hardware (feature level)
To handle the diversity of video cards in new and existing machines, Microsoft Direct3D 11 introduces the concept of feature levels. Each video card implements a certain level of Microsoft Direct3D functionality depending on the graphics processing unit (GPU) installed. In prior versions of Direct3D, you could find out the version of Direct3D the video card implemented, and then program your application accordingly.

With Direct3D 11, a new paradigm is introduced called feature levels. A feature level is a well defined set of GPU functionality. For instance, the 9_1 feature level implements the functionality that was implemented in Microsoft Direct3D 9, which exposes the capabilities of shader models ps_2_x and vs_2_x, while the 11_0 feature level implements the functionality that was implemented in Direct3D 11.

Now when you create a device, you can attempt to create a device for the feature level that you want to request. If the device creation works, that feature level exists, if not, the hardware does not support that feature level. You can either try to recreate a device at a lower feature level or you can choose to exit the application. See D3D11CreateDevice.

I took the liberty of colorizing the pertinent parts

Note you can use the DX11-API to 'support' DX09, DX10 or DX11 'feature levels'

This is key..

What this all means is 1C could in fact be using the DX11-API support for software development..

BUT

Only making use of the DX10 'feature functions'

So now that you understand what DX11-API support means

It should be clear to everyone that there is nothing misleading about the 1C advertisement!

Granted, 1C is only making use of DX10 'features' but at the same time 1C is making use of (supporting) the DX11-API

Why you ask?

Well I hate to guess, but, what with all the issues so many recent games have had with DX11 I can only assume that 1C had issues with it too. And instead of waiting on Microsoft to fix those DX11 features, they simply made use of the DX11-API option to limit the 'features' to DX10

As for why 1C said DX11-API support instead of just saying DX11 support..

I can only guess

Probably because they wanted to make it clear to those who understand what DX11-API support means, that CoD has already made the transition in their code to use (support) the DX11-API!

Which is a good thing!

Because it mean it 1C can switch to DX11 features as soon as they are ready to do so!

Where as games that have not made the transition will have to spend a lot of time and effort converting over to the DX11-API!

As was the case for Crysis 2

Originally Posted by Tiago Sousa Principal R&D Graphics Engineer

With Crysis 2 being our first multi-platform game, our main focus was to ensure a successful delivery on all supported platforms. Unfortunately, such constraint didn’t allow us to concentrate on DirectX 11 with the level of commitment that is to be expected from a Crytek release. This is the reason why it was decided to give the R&D team sufficient time and effort after the release of Crysis 2. The “DX11 Ultra Upgrade” is the result of this work: it is a free visual upgrade add-on introducing DirectX 11 support, as well as a wealth of graphical improvements and performance optimizations for both DX11 and DX9 API’s

As you can see from above quote Crysis 2 had to do a lot of work to make the transition to 'support' the DX11-API

Why?

Because they were not using the DX11-API

The good news is I think Luther statement a few days ago that we can soon expect a 50% increase in FPS is not that unbelievable, based on what the Crysis 2 team says, i.e.

Originally Posted by Tiago Sousa Principal R&D Graphics Engineer

We believe that we only started to scratch the surface of what is possible with the DirectX 11 API

So I hope that helps you and yours understand the difference between DX11 support and DX11-API support

[kendo65]

Let me just say right now that I don't even really care that much about the issue here, as others have said it's pretty much old news, but I'll just say that I always read that line as:

'Latest-gen graphics engine with DX10 and DX11 API support.'

i.e. the 'API support' refers to both DX10 and DX11 equally - it's easier to see that when you don't highlight the bit that supports your take in different coloured font. It's even easier to see when you don't add a hyphen that isn't in the original

Anyway, I've got wrapped up in some stupid arguments on this forum but this one may take the biscuit. May I be struck down by lightning if I post in this thread again...

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by kendo65

Let me just say right now that I don't even really care that much about the issue here, as others have said it's pretty much old news, but I'll just say that I always read that line as:

'Latest-gen graphics engine with DX10 and DX11 API support.'

i.e. the 'API support' refers to both DX10 and DX11 equally - it's easier to see that when you don't highlight the bit that supports your take in different coloured font. It's even easier to see when you don't add a hyphen that isn't in the original

Anyway, I've got wrapped up in some stupid arguments on this forum but this one may take the biscuit. May I be struck down by lightning if I post in this thread again...

That is your opinion (read interpretation) that fits your agenda and your welcome to it

I know a lot of you feel cheated.. How and where that comes from based on 1Cs support of the IL-2 series is beyond me.

So I only offer up my opinion (read interpretation) in the hope that it will pull you out of your funky mood.

I see that is not going to work on the hard core whiners in this thread, but if I help one person out of that funk, than it was all worth it to me

[Tacoma74]