ATAG Dedicated Server is up!

[klem]

Originally Posted by trumps

Don't understand what the issue is with MrX, looks like pretty much standard proceedure. Come in fast, get close hit hard and climb away. It works just as well when flying for the other side, get across the Chanel with some altitude and do the same thing! I think one of the biggest advantages the blues have is that they utilize coms better and we seem to fly in pairs or groups with a plan more often than the RAF flyers, the advantage of teamwork can not be understated.

Craig

Craig

Absolutely. So come on Reds, get onto TS3 especially if you're on the ATAG server. And be prepared to team up and work together and leave the egos at the door - until you meet a 109

[Sven]

Good fun on ATAG server this evening S~!

Too bad everyone stacked the blue team so I couldn't fly blue

... but Spits and Hurris will do for this one time

[ReconNZ]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Recon, you should look up comparisons on applicable types of aircraft. 109 should have a slight advantage in speed under 3km, and a better climb rate, even over the Spit IIa. When the IIa takes the 109's advantages, and adds its own superior turn rate, what you have is the equivalent of Independence Day alien warships in our WWII flight sim. While that may be appealing to some, there are better games out there for that... might I suggest Wings of Prey?

CheeseHawke - Im afraid I must disagree. Clearly we have a situation were the game has incorectly modeled the spit 1a, net result = a clear advantage to blue.

Your line: "109 should have a slight advantage in speed under 3km, and a better climb rate, even over the Spit IIa" is a dramatic understatement. Currently vs the hurri or Spit1, the advantages in this area are massive- not ""slight". And I think the 109's do still have a climb advantage against the IIa.

So I guess we have a stalemate - one side will get an advantage, so which one?

Well, Blue have cannons. Blue also have I think a better climb rate than the SPit II. And the Spit II is supposed to be the better plane.

So what I propose is to limit the number of Spit IIs as was trialled a few weeks back. Make it so blue can at least level the playing field. Saying that adding 4 or so spit 2's is equivalent to adding alien warships is a gross exageration mate. Adjust your tactics and I guarantee you can beat even the best pilots in a IIa. Blue have had it too easy for too long - remember, historically you are supposed to get beaten, it's not supposed to be the cakewalk for the 109's that it is now. The Spit2 should be superior.

Lets do a study - I believe the server now records stats is that right Bliss? Lets add 4 spit 2's into the server and see how many kills they get over the course of a week. MrX had 30 kills last time I saw him online - I never saw a spit 2 with anything like that when they were on the server.

[CWMV]

Lol...

[Jugdriver]

You are wasting your time Recon they are not interested in an honest discussion, thus the exaggeration and soon to come insults.

JD
AKA_MattE

[JG52Krupi]

LMAO I fly both sides the spit 2 was just easy... you couldn't stall that thing even if you wanted to.

[Jugdriver]

Originally Posted by JG52Krupi

LMAO I fly both sides the spit 2 was just easy... you couldn't stall that thing even if you wanted to.

Now see that wasn’t hard, no wild exaggeration (a very mild one) to prove the point. No use of the word UFO, no comparing the Spit II to a Tie fighter or insult needed.

What I find interesting is that none of the 109 jocks have commented on the handling characteristics of the 109, IMO a lot of the problem is there or maybe I am seeing things..

JD
AKA_MattE

[ATAG_Bliss]

First off, I'm not biased towards red or blue. But I think if anyone takes the effort to give it a go on both sides with the intention of living - taking off from a further airfield - climbing in the opposite direction of the action to start off with altitude, etc. I honestly feel both sides are fairly even without the spitII. The 109 will retain it's energy better and climb better, but in doing so it loses the turning contest. If you bounce a 109 without energy in either a spitIa or Rotol Hurri, that 109 is toast or better wording "should be toast". There is absolutely nothing he can do to get away. On the other end of the spectrum, you bounce a slow spit1a or hurri in a 109, they can at least be on the defensive to avoid being shot at, by turning. They may be BnZ'd for 20 minutes straight, but you can at least play the role of avoidance (in a 1v1).

After flying both sides for quite some time in the stupidest of situations to try to get a grasp on the strengths and weaknesses of all the fighters, the spitIIa does virtually everything better than a 109 currently. And as said already, a slow 109 is dead meat already to a spit1a or rotol. I honestly think it's a pretty good match up atm, albeit, the 109 does have the advantage, but that's what team work is for. Get on TS, pair up with a wingman or 3, and you'd be surprised what you can do in virtually any plane in the game.

Until the FM's are corrected, I don't think putting the spitIIa is really the right choice. I do agree the 109 has the advantage, but the room for error is far greater on the red side. The 109 makes one mess up, and well, he's a dead duck. I think you were frustrated Recon, and rightly so But I hope you see where I'm coming from. The spitIIa is just far too superior to even think about going against. We want to encourage actual fighting, at least that's what I like, I always hated chasing 109's all day long in Mk9's as they sat in the ionosphere. And in the current situation, there's definitely plenty of fighting go on, and plenty of killing for both sides

[ReconNZ]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Bliss

First off, I'm not biased towards red or blue. But I think if anyone takes the effort to give it a go on both sides with the intention of living - taking off from a further airfield - climbing in the opposite direction of the action to start off with altitude, etc. I honestly feel both sides are fairly even without the spitII. The 109 will retain it's energy better and climb better, but in doing so it loses the turning contest. If you bounce a 109 without energy in either a spitIa or Rotol Hurri, that 109 is toast or better wording "should be toast". There is absolutely nothing he can do to get away. On the other end of the spectrum, you bounce a slow spit1a or hurri in a 109, they can at least be on the defensive to avoid being shot at, by turning. They may be BnZ'd for 20 minutes straight, but you can at least play the role of avoidance (in a 1v1).

Hey Bliss, cheers for the input mate. I'm starting to suspect that my piloting may be at fault here!

There is one situation though where the frustration is really tough to take. That is when you go up against a really good pilot in a 109. These guys wont be drawn into turning fights. They often follow the bombers and they run at the first sign of loosing the advantage. As a Hurri driver it's so frustrating to spend ages chasing a group of bombers up high, only to be bounced by a 109 who then runs away should he make a mistake. Or even should the 109 spot you from a long way out, he just climbs away in a never-ending spiral where your only option is to break out (giving him the advantage). If he doesnt make a mistake, in a hurri you will die. Everytime.

So yeah, I do need to learn better evasion. We do need to fly with wingmen more. We do need to only engage from height. But at the end of the day, we can do all that right, but against guys like Mogas, 9 out of 10 times the guy in the hurri will die. The 109 drivers have no such limitations and no such frustrations.

I dont believe the Spit2 is so much better in the above situations, I think it just levels the playing field. I do though agree that its tough on the less able 109 drivers. So that's why i propose the very limited numbers of spit2s. I know you tried this before, what was the problem? Were they clocking up 30+ kills each? As you know thats what some 109'ers are doing, so if the spit2s arent, then maybe the comparrison isnt that bad in reality?

EDIT: on the plus side, I am becomming a better pilot through all of this this, plus it definately engenders much highler levels of teamwork! Maybe the next Patch will give us the Spit2b! complete with cannons!

[ReconNZ]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

If you can't stay relatively close to the 109's performance in a Hurri or Spit (it's easier in the Hurri due to the Rotal), then its your flying. This isn't 1946 where you set a control to a specific point for maximum performance, everything needs to be constantly tweaked.

I'm not the greatest Spit pilot, but I can easily manage almost 100kph faster than my 109 in the IIa at sea level, and the performance difference increases from there.

Sorry Cheese, this isnt accurate mate. In a Boom and Zoom situation, or any kind of climb, the performance of the Hurri isnt even close to the 109. (and the Spit1 isnt even worth discussing). Maybe in a straight line the hurri can almost keep up, but you start them together and make the conflict vertical, then the 109 will eat the hurri for lunch. The 109 can outlimb the hurri by a factor of almost 2 on every leg!

I'd be keen to put the Spit2 against a 109 in a side by side race actually as I personally dont have any experience as to how overmodeled everyone says it is. Although again I come back to the historical data - isnt the Spit2 supposed to be faster????

I think the 109 drivers are just worried about loosing the advantage. I dont see how four Spit2's located at an inland airfield can be so scary for you? As you all keep telling us, if you have the height advantage, and work together you can easily prevail. I think you will just need to adapt your tactics.

Or better yet, come fly the spit1 for a week on the server, with good pilots like MoGas and MrX in 109's, then tell me you dont think there is a massive advantage to the 109 pilots.