Expansion from Desatersoft

[Gerbil Maximus]

At the moment some might claim you to be defending nazism and the german state in the 30's & 40's.
I'm sure your not but in this politically correct "george orwell" nightmare world we live in we have to word oursleves very carefully.

[NSU]

oh Boy`s
many english and US IL2 Pilots fly the german Plans with historic markings, when a german player make this so he is a Nazi!!!

What i will say, this handbook will show you how the german think when they beginn the war with england, why they fight with them.

And note this is a Game Add-on and yes a WWII game, you be a Nazi when you play the german side?

Please go study some semantics, NSU.

The text is titled as "Historic background" and NOT: "How Germans believed at that time how WW2 started". And even if it had been labelled in this manner it is the minimum that a historic and factual text was put aside it.

As it is written it is a (fortunately still) marginal and queer and imho outrageous way of seeing things presented in a manner as if it was some historic account like any else. Imho it equates definitely to propaganda. Anyhow this kind of opinions whatever one might think about it has no place in a handbook of a game or an addon.

I now remember that once Desastersoft made itself speak of it in a similar way. I should have remembered that before buying it.

[NSU]

Yes "Historic background" for the Game, all my Briefings are write like Luftwaffe 1940 without any discrimination!

The handbook (i do nou write it), the Briefings and all pictures are controlled by USK Nr.:30974/11
they find NO problems, so the Desastersoft product is OK for me.

when you have a problem with the handbook, put it in the drawer and play the game

[CWMV]

Originally Posted by NSU

Yes "Historic background" for the Game, all my Briefings are write like Luftwaffe 1940 without any discrimination!

The handbook (i do nou write it), the Briefings and all pictures are controlled by USK Nr.:30974/11
they find NO problems, so the Desastersoft product is OK for me.

when you have a problem with the handbook, put it in the drawer and play the game

Well done Sir!
Lol!

[No601_Swallow]

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Stormcrow

Please go study some semantics, NSU

Personally, I think it's "poor form" to criticize a non-native speaker's language skills. He's trying to communicate on this forum as best he can (and I think his point's perfectly comprehensible.)

I wonder how your German "semantics" is? (And I'm pretty sure you meant "syntax" )

As it is, I doubt very much this is "revisionist" history (haven't read it but still...), for goodness' sake. As he says, it's "role-playing", getting into the skin of an indoctrinated warrior for his fatherland, etc, etc.

Geez, is that so hard to understand?

For my part, I'll be very interested to see what they've achieved and if (and how) they've started to mine the deep seam of scripts and triggers (ie. Frog's and Ming's fabled ambulances) that have been built into this game.

[No601_Swallow]

And another thing!

I bought this company's "Fall Blau" for IL2. I thought it was (and is) outstanding value for money. After - what - nearly a decade? - I still haven't played through all the missions and campaigns in the original, let alone the free update after - erm - was it pacific battles? Lost in the mists of forgettery...

Anyway, Fall Blau was for me a vital step up from stock single player playing (so to speak) and helped me to eventually make the jump to joining a squadron and embarrassing myself online.

I'm genuinely hoping for great things from this expansion! (Don't let me down, Knabben!)

Originally Posted by No601_Swallow

Personally, I think it's "poor form" to criticize a non-native speaker's language skills. He's trying to communicate on this forum as best he can (and I think his point's perfectly comprehensible.)

I wonder how your German "semantics" is? (And I'm pretty sure you meant "syntax" )

As it is, I doubt very much this is "revisionist" history (haven't read it but still...), for goodness' sake. As he says, it's "role-playing", getting into the skin of an indoctrinated warrior for his fatherland, etc, etc.

Geez, is that so hard to understand?

For my part, I'll be very interested to see what they've achieved and if (and how) they've started to mine the deep seam of scripts and triggers (ie. Frog's and Ming's fabled ambulances) that have been built into this game.

My criticism of language skills refered to the German handbook and NSU's interpretation of the handbook text. As NSU is fluent in German he should understand that how it is written it is definitely not in order to create some sort of "role playing feeling" nor was it marked as a description of how the German psyche was back then (please note: I don't talk about the briefings as I haven't installed the addon. I am talking about the paper handbook and the short description of historical background after their gospel). If you cannot see the difference I don't know how to explain it. Please grap the handbook and let google translate the text for you and then judge again.

BTW: I have read the text and therefore I can judge it and my judgement is that the purpose of this text in the handbook is not to put someone in a role playing mood but to relativise historic facts in favour of Germany. If it is fine for you and you still want to support these guys by buying their products ok. I for my part think that all people interested in buying this should just know what they buy so they can make a decision knowing all pros and cons. That's what this thread is about, init?

[No601_Swallow]

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Stormcrow

My criticism of language skills refered to the German handbook and NSU's interpretation of the handbook text.

No it didn't.

And I haven't studied European history since 6th form in the early 80's, but I still remember my history teacher (who served in the war) summarising it all as there basically being two solutions to "the German Problem" (which is that there are basically too many German speakers in Europe - so there is always going to be a structural imbalance.

There were two solutions. Bismarck tried the first: a "Klein" Deutsch solution - a small state that excluded all the bits that Hitler later tried to incorporate into his "Gross" Deutsch solution - in which all ethnic/linguistic/arian Germans would be united in his "reich". So according to my history teacher, Hitler tried the solution that Bismarck rejected. Then, of course, came the insanity.

[Another interesting take on WW2 comes from Niall Furgusson, the Scottish historian, who states convincingly that from an economic point of view, the Nazis were buggered before they began. The last thing they needed was "liebensraum". What they needed was cheap immigrant labour to support their heavy industries. (They half achieved this through slavery during the war.) They also needed markets for their goods, which war stopped. They were basically like George Osborne (or Gordon Brown). So, it was always economically inevitable that they'd lose the war.]

[desastersoft]

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Stormcrow

Please go study some semantics, NSU.

The text is titled as "Historic background" and NOT: "How Germans believed at that time how WW2 started". And even if it had been labelled in this manner it is the minimum that a historic and factual text was put aside it.

As it is written it is a (fortunately still) marginal and queer and imho outrageous way of seeing things presented in a manner as if it was some historic account like any else. Imho it equates definitely to propaganda. Anyhow this kind of opinions whatever one might think about it has no place in a handbook of a game or an addon.

I now remember that once Desastersoft made itself speak of it in a similar way. I should have remembered that before buying it.

Historic Facts are not Propaganda! Maybe you should take some books about the Time from 1918-1939. The World was not Black/White. And there where many things what made the War. A Good One for you: Patrick Buchanan/ Chirchill, Hitler and the unnacessery War

Sorry for my Bad English. Wir können das ja gern im Deutschen ausdiskutieren, und zwar anhand der historischen Fakten.

From the Manual/Engl. Tanslation
Events which led to the Battle of Britain

As events in August 1939 dealing with the Free City of Danzig and the corridor separating East Prussia and Danzig from the German Reich escalated, no one anticipated that a year later a situation would unfold in which the German Reich would dominate half of Europe. How did things come to this? Indeed, many factors were involved. Firstly, there were the three dictatorships: the Soviet Union, Germany and Poland. Poland up till March 1939 was considered by the Americans and British what would today be called a “rogue nation”. Between 1918, the proclamation of the renewed Polish state, and 1938, the furthest expansion of Poland, Poland had militarily attacked all of its surrounding countries and expanded its territory at the expense of the Soviet Union, Germany, Lithuania and lastly Czechoslavakia. Poland was a bomb with many fuses and suffered from self overestimation due to its victories over the Soviet Union and German in previous years. Indeed, in October 1938 Great Britain was very close to forming an alliance against Poland.

One of Hitler's main goals was the restoration of conditions as they were in 1914. A Greater Germany bounded within the borders of German and Austria. This also included that territory which was awarded to the artificial state of Czechoslavakia in 1919. With the break-up of Czechoslavakia into Slovakia and the Czech Republik (incidentally exactly the same as today, two small European nations) he recognized the possibility of bringing this Czech region back into the Reich as the protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, as it had been for 1000 years. Anyone who says that wasn't right and Hitler should not have been allowed to do that, can be answered that this is exactly what was done by the soon to be war opponents Great Britain and France. In 1926 Great Britain annexed Egypt and made it a protectorate. India, Palastine, South Africa, Australia, indeed Britains list is long! Same with the French! So it really was not something unusual. In like manner Poland in October 1938 claimed for itself the Teschen region and the former German town of Oderberg, a not insignificant part of the Czech Republic.

Then hysteria began to break out. “Poland is going to be next” was to be heard coming from Britain. Poland itself in March 1939 mobilized against East Prussia and fired, therefore, the opening shot in the escalation towards war. In response to the mobilization of Poland the directive for “Case White”, a possible attack on Poland, was issued. Its date of issue was April 3, 1939, two weeks after the Polish mobilization. Poland dared to take this step, because Britain and France declared on March 19, 1939 an unrestricted garauntee for Polands perpetuation. In a secret amendment to this treaty it was determined that this alliance would array itself militarily against Germany. Meanwhile this pact did not direct itself against the Soviet Union. In this regard Hitler's thoughts were not without basis, that the pact was exclusively anti-German.