Suddenly Spit IIa on all the servers?

[Ataros]

Do not know if this video was posted before but hope it can bring some faith in Emil back.

4 vs. 4 it should not be as bad as 1 vs. 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emYem...layer_embedded

PS. I know that it is easier to say so than to do it but I think the idea should be not to outperform or outfly the Spit2 but to kill it using E4's superior and deadly firepower on the 1st or 2nd pass. Of cause not 1 vs. 1.

[David198502]

thx tomcat for your answer.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Seems to be that most people are not douche bags and dont fly the Spit IIa. Just for you information 5./JG27 Server is currently hosting an Adlertag Mission without the 109Emil 4 or the Spit IIa... has been for some time.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

Seems to be that most people are not douche bags and dont fly the Spit IIa. Just for you information 5./JG27 Server is currently hosting an Adlertag Mission without the 109Emil 4 or the Spit IIa... has been for some time.

I fly repka 2 mostly because it usually has the most people on and the map isn't rediculously big for the aount of players. I'de prefer a full real server but the english channel map is huge for the amount of people playing.

I'm not stating this for all servers but repka 2 is full of spit 2as. I just played on it 10 minutes ago and almost everyone on red was a 2a.

What does this mean?

Scully (my wingman) and I were patroling at 400 KM when he noticed 2 dots approaching from our 6 oclock low. We had plenty of distance so we engaged afterburner and tried to climb away. when afterburner ran out we pulled a slight banking left to check 6. the two dots were closing in. (Crap 2a).. The only idea left was to attempt a drag and bag. My wingman turned (to bait the spit) and dove to our 2 Oclock while I climbed. The lead spit took the bait and followed in the dive (usually a fatal mistake in a spit). I quickly inverted and dove in persuit ignoring the 2nd for my wingmans sake while also assuming I had him beat in the dive.

What happened?

My wingman quickly reached 700 KPH hoping to get distance since the dive started with a negative g dive. I also hoped to gain on the spit in the high speed dive and clear my wingmans tail while the spit was focussed on said wingman and said wingman was outdiving the spit. Unfortunately the spits outdove both of us. The lead spit outran me and killed my wingman while the second spit cought up to me and disabled my controls. Keep in mind this was a prolonged dive from 400 KM. There was lots of room between all planes and the dive lasted a good 30 seconds before shots were fired. The sky was angry that day my friend, this was no girly dive. Wings were creaking.

To add insult to injury. I bailed, parachute didn't deploy, and i supermaned into the side of the red mountain airfield. This part I actually enjoyed.

Hehe.

Conclusion,
There is no tactic to kill spit 2a unless you have a large altitute advantage and he doesnt see you.

Or hes a poor shot and you give him lots of time behind a friendlies tail.

I'm all for realism guys but atleast limit the amount of them. whats the actual combat statistic? 40 percent?
Gollum.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by Ataros

Do not know if this video was posted before but hope it can bring some faith in Emil back.

4 vs. 4 it should not be as bad as 1 vs. 1.

PS. I know that it is easier to say so than to do it but I think the idea should be not to outperform or outfly the Spit2 but to kill it using E4's superior and deadly firepower on the 1st or 2nd pass. Of cause not 1 vs. 1.

This is assuming you get a first pass. You can only bring guns to bear on it if you have suprise and large altitude advantage, or superior numbers (however this means some unfortunate pilot has the job of being the dancing monkey) And im sorry for forgetting this but theres also luck. With a 4 vs 4 you may be correct though. More chances of lining up shots with superior fire power since there will be dancing monkeys involved. If 4 spits are on the tail of 4 109s, its possible that 3 of those 109s are chasing 3 of those spits and firepower may come into play since the 109s can do more damge.

The real question though is, is the current FM and numbers of the 2a historacally correct compared to the 109 E4. At this point I dont think so. I dont know enough about the FM but most are saying that it is either overmodeled or the 109 is undermodeled. There is also the question of numbers. Did the RAF have 100 percent of their squadrens outfitted with these? allowing everyone to chose one on a server says they did. I dont mind not getting an e4 and being forced to fly and 3 or 1 if thats how it goes. Ide rather that then having everyone dominate in a superior plane. Plane restrictions is the only way to deal with this. If the next german plane is better than the 2a, restrict the crap out of it historically. Thats the fair way to do it in my opinion. At least you only have to watch out for a a few of them instead of all of them. Just an opinion though.

I just wan't realism. I'm willing to take a disadvantage if it is historical but I don't think 100 percent of the fighters the e4 faced were 2a. I'm not saying they should be banned. Just saying they should have the FMs proper and in proper numbers so it's not a massacre up there.

in the last few flights i took. the only kills i got were sneak attacks from above. all other engagements were futile. (see superman story above)

hehe. Gnight all

Gollum

[Danelov]

Originally Posted by Gollum

The real question though is, is the current FM and numbers of the 2a historacally correct compared to the 109 E4. At this point I dont think so. I dont know enough about the FM but most are saying that it is either overmodeled or the 109 is undermodeled. There is also the question of numbers. Did the RAF have 100 percent of their squadrens outfitted with these? allowing everyone to chose one on a server says they did. I dont mind not getting an e4 and being forced to fly and 3 or 1 if thats how it goes. Ide rather that then having everyone dominate in a superior plane. Plane restrictions is the only way to deal with this. If the next german plane is better than the 2a, restrict the crap out of it historically. Gollum

About the historical numbers:

Spitfire MK II : 750 produced(from June 1940), entry in service in August 1940with the 611th Squadron.

Messerschmitt 109E-4: 250 produced(from May 1940)
Messerschmitt 109E-4B: 211 produced(from Aug 1940)

A good number of E-3 were refitted in field as E-4s.
The E-4 make his aparition in high numbers after August 1940. Before , bulk of operations(and losses)was supported by the E-1s.

If the intention was to reproduced the battle after historical numbers :

July
-No Spitfire MK II, very few E-4s. A lot of E-1s and a few E-3s.
August
-Some Spitfires MK II, some more E-4 , still a lot of E-1s , few E-3s.
September
-More Spitfire MK II, More E-4s, a little less E-1s and very few E-3. A dozen of E-7s.
October
-Near all Spitfire MK II and E-4s and some more E-7s, still a good number of E-1s. any E-3.
Novembrer
-Spitfires MK II, E-4s and E-7s, very few E-1s, any E-3.

[SEE]

Some interesting numbers their Danelov. Imagine trying to sort that out on MP servers for historical accuracy- it would be impossible.

Leaving the Mk2 out isn't the problem for many Spit jockeys wether for performance or historical reasons. Being left with a Mk1 with two speed prop and a Hurricane that outpaces it also fails on historical/performance correctness. But, it's a 'fair play' compromise for MP untill the FM's are tweaked.

[SNAFU]

You might either look for a historically orientated layout or for a fair orientated layout. Choose one of the two, the first gives the comfort of neglecting any long discussions.

[TomcatViP]

I hve been fighting the Spit IIa in a 109 at low alt
I hve been invoved in tight turn fight with a Spit Ia in a nimble G50
I hve seen myself B&Zing a Spit Ia in a hurri (mistaken it for a 109)
I have been chased at high alt by a climbing Spit in my 109E3

I can tell you one thing : in none of the above case did I felt like fighting a real plane.

Everything I did was matched on an oddly manner only by the strange FM of the thing.

You can tell what ever you like but this has nothing in common with a spit or a real plane. Hence its only presence would be the ground of thousands speculations and debates.

[SEE]

A lot of this fair play argument is all to do with altitude and many players tendency to engage at low alt.

If you read the Autobiographies of many of the Pilots who flew the Spits, during and after the BoB, you get a better sense of what each of these ac were capable of.

Discipline was a key factor for pilots on both sides. In many accounts, Spit Pilots would see the BFs above them. If the numbers were evenly matched and the BF pilots thought they had no elemenent of suprise they would refrain from dropping down to engage. The BF Pilot knew where and under what circumstances he had the edge....at Altitude or by suprise and were disciplined to engage when they had the advantage of both.

The BFs currently modelled have better engine performance than the Spit Mk2 at 18K+. Most of the ac have problems with FM and that is where the argument lies.

If one day CloD goes Eastern Front with Yaks.......?