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[Ze-Jamz]

Originally Posted by SEE

But that ignores each players relative skill and experience?

If you like...But lets say a Novice pilots can keep up with out climb and out dive a experienced 109 pilot... is that better?

Originally Posted by SEE

Neg G + 303's

What you mean like what it had in RL?

Originally Posted by SEE

...............and I choose RED for nationality.

Cool.. I dont

[Ze-Jamz]

Mate Im not going on about it anymore as it seems only a few of us care enough to post anything which is the minority..

Il still fly in there and just shoot down AI bombers until something else is fixed

~S~

[Jugdriver]

From What I have read the Spit II should be slower than the 109 E by about 10 MPH from sea level to about 10,000 feet, from 10,000 to 17,000 they should be quite close in speed, then from 17,000 to 24,000 the Spitfire should be faster (around 10 MPH at its most), then from 24K and up the 109 takes over again in speed. As for Climb I can only find information stating the Spit II outclimbed the Spit I especially at higher altitudes, but I have not found a good climb comparison between the 109 E and the Spit II.

All in all I would say that Spit II should give a 109 E a run for its money especially between 10K and 20K so what you seem to be experiencing is not too far off historical numbers if you are fighting a Spit II above 10K and below 24K. That being said someone should look at the Speed of the 109 E vs the Spit II on the deck and see if the Spit II is faster in the game, if so I would say this is historically inaccurate. I find the 109 E goes about 10KPH slower than what it should on the deck (475KPH with boost is what I can get), so if the Spit II is going its historical 290MPH on the deck it still slower than the 109 E we have now, but it is not as much of a difference as it should be. I wonder if they are modeling a +12 LBS 100 octane Spit II? If so that would be a handful for a 109 E at any Altitude.

JD
AKA_MattE

[Ze-Jamz]

Originally Posted by Jugdriver

From What I have read the Spit II should be slower than the 109 E by about 10 MPH from sea level to about 10,000 feet, from 10,000 to 17,000 they should be quite close in speed, then from 17,000 to 24,000 the Spitfire should be faster (around 10 MPH at its most), then from 24K and up the 109 takes over again in speed. As for Climb I can only find information stating the Spit II outclimbed the Spit I especially at higher altitudes, but I have not found a good climb comparison between the 109 E and the Spit II.

All in all I would say that Spit II should give a 109 E a run for its money especially between 10K and 20K so what you seem to be experiencing is not too far off historical numbers if you are fighting a Spit II above 10K and below 24K. That being said someone should look at the Speed of the 109 E vs the Spit II on the deck and see if the Spit II is faster in the game, if so I would say this is historically inaccurate. I find the 109 E goes about 10KPH slower than what it should on the deck (475KPH with boost is what I can get), so if the Spit II is going its historical 290MPH on the deck it still slower than the 109 E we have now, but it is not as much of a difference as it should be. I wonder if they are modeling a +12 LBS 100 octane Spit II? If so that would be a handful for a 109 E at any Altitude.

JD
AKA_MattE

It is faster on the deck than the 109 but havent tested it enough up to any given height.. but its that way up to near 10k.. that much i do know

The E-3 & E-4 are the same speed at level flight up to 3k tested, its very hard to get an exact figure but if anything the E-4 is 5-7kph quicker...that may be just the testing conditions OR maybe the weight factor if modeled correctly? (was E4 lighter than E3?)

Climbing wise, from what ive experienced in game flying both the Spit can Climb with the 109 if not better, again only tested this from deck to around 5-6k

[Danelov]

Weight 109 date

E-1 5516 lbs Operational Empty 4426 lbs
E-3 5875 lbs Operational Empty 4440 lbs
E-4 5530 lbs Operational Empty 4894 lbs
E-7 6092 lbs Operational Empty 4445 lbs


Some small weight differences between constructors are normal

[Jugdriver]

A Spit II would be over 6000 Lbs. The numbers I quoted in my previous post are for a +9LBS boosted Spit II. I think the FM for the Spit II might be a bit confused.. IMO the Spit I and Hurr I in the game are modeled with the +6 ¼LBS boost in mind and the Spit II is modeled with the + 12LBS Boost and 100 octane fuel. Combine that with some favorable numbers and a (little) less than historical performance in the 109 E and there is a significant gap in the performance of the two planes and how they should be modeled. One thing to keep in mind though, even if these aircraft are modeled correctly the Spit II +12LBS will be a deadly opponent for a 109 E 1, 3, 4.

[Das Attorney]

Originally Posted by Jugdriver

A Spit II would be over 6000 Lbs. The numbers I quoted in my previous post are for a +9LBS boosted Spit II. I think the FM for the Spit II might be a bit confused.. IMO the Spit I and Hurr I in the game are modeled with the +6 ¼LBS boost in mind and the Spit II is modeled with the + 12LBS Boost and 100 octane fuel. Combine that with some favorable numbers and a (little) less than historical performance in the 109 E and there is a significant gap in the performance of the two planes and how they should be modeled. One thing to keep in mind though, even if these aircraft are modeled correctly the Spit II +12LBS will be a deadly opponent for a 109 E 1, 3, 4.

The Mark I and Ia are modelled up to 6.25 lbs/sq in. Boost is 6.252 lbs/sq in. Yes, that's an increase of 0.02 lbs/sq in when boost is engaged.

Check the MerlinIII entry in the engine.fmd file:

Supercharger SingleStageSupercharger Efficiency 0.5 LimiterInput Manifold NominalPressure +6.25 lbsqin ContinuousPressure +4.5 lbsqin WEPPressure +6.252 lbsqin NominalAltitude 16250 feet
Valvetrain Generic SlowRunningEfficiency 0.9
FuelPump Pushrod NominalPressure 9 lbsqin at 500 RPM
Carburettor RollsRoyceFloat DiffuserBore 6.1 cm OrificeSlowFast 1.0 sec Heater AutoEngineOil Altimetric DensityRatio Dresser BoostDriven Input +4.5 lbsqin to +6.25 lbsqin Output 1.0 to 1.01

The Spit IIa has +9 lbs/sq in boost.

From the MerlinXII entry:

Supercharger SingleStageSupercharger Efficiency 0.5 LimiterInput Manifold NominalPressure +6.25 lbsqin ContinuousPressure +4.5 lbsqin WEPPressure +9.0 lbsqin NominalAltitude 13500 feet
Valvetrain Generic SlowRunningEfficiency 0.9
FuelPump Pushrod NominalPressure 9 lbsqin at 500 RPM
Carburettor RollsRoyceFloat DiffuserBore 6.1 cm OrificeSlowFast 1.0 sec Heater AutoEngineOil Altimetric DensityRatio Dresser BoostDriven Input +4.5 lbsqin to +6.25 lbsqin Output 1.0 to 1.01

Spit I/Ia is way too slow, Me109 should be faster, and Spit IIa is much too fast. I modded in a +12lbs/sq in boost Spitfire IIa and it's totally insane. I'd like to see stuff like that in the game properly, but only if they sort out the existing planes first.