IL2 and Sound Modding

[Decon]

Greets!

Been around a long time and just now discovered the sound mod and others. I certainly didn't read every post here but a lot of them. I agree with Ivan, find a solution and LOCK the online games down solid.

That said, if some effort was made at an earlier time to address some of the "fluff" that adds to immersion this may have not become such a large scale problem.

Finally, I flew WarBirds in the mid-90's and Aces High on and off. I was here for the IL2 Beta. I have played golf online, raced everything, and played plenty of the FPS stuff. If you all think this SIM wasn't hacked a long time ago you're noobs! Look at the rts.dll and the NoCD .exe's. Turn up the oxygen a notch or two and think about it! Mod or No-Mod Have fun your way.

Remember...Believe little of what you hear, half of what you read, and NOTHING online, it simply ain't REAL! You'll sleep better at night and never get angry with your FUN.

Check "6" and Happy New Year S~

Man of Many Names

[LEXX]

Well I don't mod anything, because I'm stuck at 4.04, and don't even play that, although I would ~love~ to modup this sim if I hadn't found another sim to get deep into.

If I did already have 1946, I would have personal reservations about modding up with tools that were -- I assume -- originally hacked without Oleg's approval.

But, I have NO interest in upgrading and playing Oleg's sim again, unless I were to mod it up, because the new modding offers enough potential features to bring me back to WW2 Eastern Front simming.

As Alan Greenspan might say, I'm having an irrational connumdrum. I like to think that if Oleg somehow "approved" the hack-originated modding, I would happily buy 1946(**). I'm kinda rationalizing that maybe this late in the sim, if no fix comes with 4.09, then Oleg doesn't really mind, but that sounds a bit too self-convenient.

(**)

Make a deal.
What kind of deal?
You know, a Deal deal. Maybe the guy's a Republican.
--
woof woof

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by HanzBlixz

We’ve come full circle. In 2003 a program was written for CFS2 by HA_13 (aka Ziggy) called Fairskies. Its purpose was to keep mods and cheaters out of servers that wanted a clean, fair (original files only) dogfight.

I collected information from many players and provided feedback to Ziggy on how many of the cheats where done. As the different versions of Fairskies came out I would show Ziggy the remaining holes that needed to be plugged. This was after the first Gulf War and jokingly people were calling me “Hans Blix the weapons inspector for CFS2” (The real Hans Blix was the UN weapons inspector trying to find WMD in Iraq). As a result and joke my callsign was changed to HanzBlixz.

At first Fairskies put a huge dent in the cheating that was going on in servers that required Fairskies. Flyers who were dumb enough to join a server and try their FM mods to see of they could get away with it were caught. Many of the cheaters stopped joining the servers that they played on in fear of being caught. Flyers that were dominating dogfights suddenly went from heros to zeros and started flying bombers in no shooting allowed games. Even more changed their callsigns or haven’t been seen since.

Some eventually found ways to beat Fairskies and started sharing the hacks with friends. Many of us were also flying IL2 at the time. When we showed Ziggy all the ways that Fairskies was being beat and how IL2 was different, a decision was made to stop further work on Fairskies and move on to IL2. Fairskies did stop some cheating in CFS2, but as a side affect also launched a mass exodus of flyers from CFS2 to IL2.

Ziggy didn’t have an easy task at trying to develop Fairskies in a flight sim that was so open. I remember him saying that MS would not help him in anyway, or answer any questions and that was a real hurdle for him.

If 409m server does not end up with a better anti-hack check then looking further into crazyivans suggestion may make sense. This depends on several things, including how far off Bob is from actually being released. Working with 1C or at least getting some answers to questions will be much easier than trying to get info out of MS and IL2 is already far more secure then CFS2 was.

If some of you do decide to write the a 3rd party protection program, have a place were everyone can report specifics and holes on how people can cheat. NOT in an open forum or to be shared with the public. Maybe with a specific contact at 1C, a dedicated 1C email address or something? The person or team that attempts to develop the anti cheat program can then review and compare the reports to see if they covered all the holes.

I have several friends that are members of the mod community that want to improve the sim and not abuse it. Some info and tracks I posted in this forum came from AAA members (and a former member) who don’t like the path that some of the modders are heading down. So, get the modders involved like Josse, MrJolly, Wasy and others to help with at least giving input. They have all declared how they are against using mods to cheat and they are aware that their mods are being abused to do just that. I think if you give them a chance they will help.
Happy New Year to all.

That is actually great news. IMO it would be fantastic if this tool whatever it was could concentrate on screening FM/DM/Weps and other things that could be used to cheat changes seperately from other changes.. and leave the option open for some of the other things. I have not tried any of the mods at this point but to be totally honest and fair, some of them do sound good, heck the sound mod sounds good (no pun intended) along with the default skins mod for static aircraft. I think it would be a shame and only increase the rift between in the community if all the mods were carte blance rendered un useable by this tool... but that sounds like a great idea and is the first real glimmer of hope I have heard since this whole thing started.

[LT.INSTG8R]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

That is actually great news. IMO it would be fantastic if this tool whatever it was could concentrate on screening FM/DM/Weps and other things that could be used to cheat changes seperately from other changes.. and leave the option open for some of the other things. I have not tried any of the mods at this point but to be totally honest and fair, some of them do sound good, heck the sound mod sounds good (no pun intended) along with the default skins mod for static aircraft. I think it would be a shame and only increase the rift between in the community if all the mods were carte blance rendered un useable by this tool... but that sounds like a great idea and is the first real glimmer of hope I have heard since this whole thing started.

Exactly Bearcat. There are some wonderful things being done in the name of improvement and have no ill intent. I held off as long as I could on the sound mod but I have used it and now I dont think I could bring myself to go back to the old sounds.Sound has always been a big priority in anything for me. Guess its the musician in me.
Heck my mate and I just sat on the runway revving our Spit Vc's just to listen to each other. Flew formation for miles and miles just hitting F3 to hear them both whip past together and thats just the Spit! I mean when I first fired up the P-40 I said "Hey thats an Allison!, guys did P-40s have Allisons? I only knew that sound from growing up in an area where Tractor Pulling was popular and so was the Allison as an engine.
They have put alot of effort into this and it doesnt deserve to be just quashed because others do have ill intent.

I hope some sort of "Booster Pack" that has genuine improvements to the sim that the entire community can agree on can happen as there are so many GOOD things that are becoming available that I would hate to see them overshadowed by the bad things.

I think FM/DM/WM should be left alone. Thats something nobody should have access too. But putting a fresh coat of paint on the old crate should be embraced.

[strewth]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Well first of all, as ex-military I know one of the last things done before take-off was to wipe the canopy clean one last time.

Remind me to NEVER fly with you........

DerAlte

Edit: And who says the "World according to Oleg" is right? That I always wondered.

I really thought that I would stay out of this, because "There are none so blind as he who doesn't want to see".

Firstly DerAlte, I am guessing that you are a pilot of the jet age. Big difference between having a jet engine behind you and having a poorly serviced oily piston engine right in front of your windscreen with a bloody great fan blowing all that crap straight back at you.

The point I actually have though is that although the mods were initially done with the best of intentions, there will always be people wanting to abuse the situation. That is why if the corner store owner leaves his key in the door for the honest employee to start next morning; Most people walking past would ignore it or try to act responsibly by removing the key and returning it to the owner believing that it may have been an accident. The sad truth is that there are those in our community that would take advantage of the unlocked door for their own benifit. This does not insinuate that all the others are bad or have bad intentions, but hey, if the hat fits, wear it. You know if you are doing the right thing or not and regardless of how much better it makes your honest life to have that key in the door. You know that one day/night, some low life will rob the store and start to ruin things for everyone, including yourself. Sad but true.

I would dearly love the sound mod as I think that it was always a weak spot in a fantastic sim and I accept that it was done with the best of intentions. But I also know that it WILL get abused by some miserable idiot, so I choose not to open Pandora's box myself.

For those that put foward the argument that it is just scare tactics and paranoia to state that some idiot WILL if not already having done so (the second being my personal belief),abuse the mod/hack/whatever you want to call it. I say to you - That I see your paranoia and raise you a substancial dose of ignorance for the belief that someone out there will not take advantage of the situation for their own personal gain.

Some say that ignorance is bliss though. Time I retired for the evening.

Oh! and one final thing. I don't believe that anyone said that the world according to Oleg was right. However! he probably has a better idea on things than most other people here. Oleg is not just some nerd that made a game one day. Try a bit of research.

[DerAlte]

I have researched alot of WW2 aviation. This game is the best (at the moment) for WW2 aircraft. It just has way too many "missing" items to make it a sim, so it stays as a game. Oleg is right about alot of things, but very, very wrong about others. We can start at loadouts and go from there. It seems to me that most people in todays age take what they see on TV, games, and in the internet as face value (Wikipedia anyone?).
As UF_Josse said, a little reading here or there will open your eyes.

BTW, I have flown in WW2 fighters and bombers, a Bud of mine was a member of the CAF untill the PC crowd whined so they changed the name. I have a fews hours in a T-6 Texan (front seat).

But I see know that no matter what is said, or how it is said, if you do not follow what the "Great Leader" says.......you bees wrong. Another forum that has turned into a Zoo.

BTW, I think that most of the computer programmers "think" they are right when they make their games too.

How many hours do you have flying?? Have you flown in a REAL WW2 aircraft? Thought not.

DerAlte

[X]

I am leitmotiv of Ubi forum. I was advised by a good friend the 6 DOF mod was perfected, and that I should try it. I had taken 46 off my HD because it bored me to tears. After all the sound and fury over the mods, I was doubly sick of it. I tried the sound mod before I zapped 46, and I enjoyed the Bf 110C, and that was about it. I was not able to get the first version of the 6 DOF mod to work, so that was that. Yesterday I reinstalled 46, reinstalled the sound mod, and installed the 6 DOF mod---this time it worked perfectly.

Let me say this to those who are dead set against the mods. You would have to be literally insane to not use the 6 DOF mod. 6 DOF is not a luxury for a combat flight sim, it is not a gimmick, it is not fun---it is absolutely essential. The standard sight emulation system in IL-2 is archaic and completely artificial. With 6 DOF, IL-2 is nearly state-of-the-art. Without 6 DOF your situational awareness is massively reduced. Without 6 DOF your relationship to your gunsight is artificial. Without it all the beautiful modeling of the effects of telescopic sights is wasted. With 6 DOF, you literally bend over and zoom right into the telescopic view through the tube. You can't imagine it until you have done it. If you do not have the latest TrackIR, and if you have never used a 6 DOF flight sim like FSX, BOBII, or MAW, you will have no idea what you are missing. Your visual activity in the sim is completely natural. My favorite IL-2 airplane has always been the I-16. I always rankled at the completely unrealistic blocked view aft. I hated having to fishtail constantly to check six. I was always handling it in a completely gamed, artificial manner. With 6 DOF it is another airplane. All of the airplanes are completely new. Your relationship to each one is now different. You are not operating it using a mechanical, unrealistic sighting procedure. Fly the He 111 or Ju 88. Your experience is completely different. By the way, I think 6 DOF works better in IL-2 than it does in FSX, BOBII, or MAW---go figure that. Now IL-2 is my favorite flight sim again.

Recall we were "authoritatively" told 6 DOF was impossible for IL-2.

I have a theory. I suspect Oleg saw that the online community wanted IL-2 frozen. He is working on BOBSOW which intends to answer the needs of both offliners and onliners. I suspect he wants to see just how inventive the IL-2 people could be---after all, he intends to let outsiders use their models in BOB offline. So he let the frustration with the sedentary design build until the boiling point, and voila!---the mods. Now we see an unprecedented explosion of creativity and ingenuity. The reactionaries are screaming their heads off. Before the mods IL-2 was heading for oblivion. Now it will live for years even after BOB. Before 6 DOF IL-2 was a clumsy toy. With 6 DOF it is a combat flight sim. Live with it.

[strewth]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

How many hours do you have flying?? Have you flown in a REAL WW2 aircraft? Thought not.

DerAlte

Well actually I have not "Flown a REAL WW2 aircraft", only been a passenger and I suppose that that does not count to a legend like yourself. I have also clocked up many hours with a mate when young while he got his pilots licence. I just didn't have the money to do mine. My apologies for being such an unworthy peasant.

I also never said that Oleg is always right, but I haven't yet seen one of the mods develop their own game engine and produce a complete sim/game from scratch. Oleg has to draw lines in the sand at certain points and even that doesn't make him always correct, so get off the worshipping Oleg crapp!

I generally remain quiet in these forums and for good reason. It's blowhards like yourself that think that blurting out that you "Flew a REAL WW2 aircraft" (oh wow please stop so I can bow at your feet oh great massiah", that think that you know more than the people that spent thousands of hours trying to please every whining son of a goat that expects that they know more. BLOW IT OUT YOUR ARSE MATE!

I am not against mods and would dearly love to see how much this IL2 has left in it. But that does not validate hacking into code to achieve it, now matter how talented and well meaning the mods are.

I shall bid you good night now.