IL2 and Sound Modding

[LEXX]

I saw that too, and its kinda funny -- no less so than BillFish's Classic a few pages back suggesting that the customers who paid for the sim don't have any valid opinions.

When Oleg poasted the news possibly opening BoB And Beyond to modding for Offline play and mod friendly servers, we were told that Oleg's plan would kill the next sim. So, even Oleg Maddox was indirectly accused of..."wanting to kill the (next) sim."

[LEXX]

Nope -- I was wrong.

I *think* BillFish referred to Offline players who are modding up, which is probably a minority of Offline players as of now.

[Billfish]

Originally Posted by LEXX

I saw that too, and its kinda funny -- no less so than BillFish's Classic a few pages back suggesting that the customers who paid for the sim don't have any valid opinions..............

Get your quotes correct.......My statement was quite clear, that being "offline players opinions as to "online play" are invalid".......More so, there is nothing anyone can do to affect an offline players enjoyment of the sim....However, any and all changes, mods, hedges, hacks, & cheats affect online players greatly as it is crucial that online play be balanced and fair. Can it be made better, you bet. Can it be made rediculously intollerable....Absolutly.

In this case however with the good has already come significant bad....and it's only getting worse.

So for offliners to be trying to dictate that which only affects others.....That's frankly wrong and says much for the spirit of "community" they have. So no, as to online play their opinions do not count.

Doesn't mean they can't state them, doesn't mean they're wrong or right.....Just quite simply it does not affect them only onliners.

Or is this concept too difficult to grasp?......I'm betting you get it

[LEXX]

Got it! Offline players have no opinion on, and Offline modders present no danger to, anonymous public server gameplay. Offline players can enjoy modding up by themselves.

There is a growing number of Online players modding up, so your stake as an anonymous public server player is to keep Online modders out of the open public servers you play in. How do we accomplish this?

In the long term, Oleg's possible "formula" for BoB And Beyond covers the following two options...

Oleg's Forumula:
(1) Modding for Offline play and Online open-mod servers.
(2) No Modding for Online no-mod servers.

For now, in this sim (FB/PF), we can't do this very well, at least without work on the part of server admins to find and eliminate public cheaters. If Oleg can close the hole in 4.09, and it remains unhacked, while Offline and Online players wishing to use modded 4.08 (or maybe 4.09beta ??), then we might get the 2 options above in the last stages of this sim.


BillFish::

So for offliners to be trying to dictate that which only affects others.....That's frankly wrong and says much for the spirit of "community" they have. So no, as to online play their opinions do not count.

It affects not only others but the Offline players themselves because its a largely shared sim (not quite -- for example, no Respawn for Offline players). A too deeply shared sim needs to be somehow "split" so that customer options or modding don't present the ability to exploit them in the anonymous public servers that choose not to allow these customer options or modding.

[LEXX]

oops -- a third, and most functional, possibility...

The mythological CRT=3, as some call it.

Assuming this appears in 4.09, all customers can fully mod a final 4.09, but no Online modders can join CRT=3 servers.

Is this Correct Thinking?

[HanzBlixz]

Originally Posted by LEXX

oops -- a third, and most functional, possibility...

The mythological CRT=3, as some call it.

Assuming this appears in 4.09, all customers can fully mod a final 4.09, but no Online modders can join CRT=3 servers.

Is this Correct Thinking?

Yes Lexx
Many are all hoping for a CRT=3 on the 409 server side.
There are several problems now with CRT=2

#A It doesnt prevent all types of possible cheats or mods.
#B If you host a server with CRT=2 people with some other versions of windows can not join. (Language/Keyboard also causes an issue)
For CRT=3 to be really good...both A and B need to be addressed.

With a good CRT=3 -The modders can be happy with servers running CRT=0 and the the purist might get what they want in a CRT=3

[Ratsack]

Originally Posted by Billfish

...

So for offliners to be trying to dictate that which only affects others.....That's frankly wrong and says much for the spirit of "community" they have. So no, as to online play their opinions do not count.

Doesn't mean they can't state them, doesn't mean they're wrong or right.....Just quite simply it does not affect them only onliners.

...

Geez, listen to yourself! All this 'dictatin' going on.

I have seen on-liners get hysterical about prop pitch and trim control. Everybody got their trim nerfed just so some on liners wouldn't get their panties in a bunch. Prop pitch now only works on CSP planes. Yeah, only on liners can have their enjoyment of the game affected.

Whether you like it or not, mods to the sim may very well be popular with a wide range of players, including off liners. Your position that modding only affects online play is nonsense.

It affects everybody, and what you see as bad some will see as good. To label their opinions irrelevant is, as I said before, arrogant. You're only seeing your little patch of the game and your little problems.

cheers,
Ratsack

[LEXX]

RatSack::

Everybody got their trim nerfed just so some on liners wouldn't get their panties in a bunch.

We have a HUGE problem if the sim is too deeply shared between Offline and various forms of Online play. Back round Patch 3.xy, there was a surprising ubi.com episode where Oleg super-modded the Corsair so Online Dogfight players could fly Corsairs off motionless static carriers (no moving carriers in Dogfight gameplay). A short but sharp flame war erupted between Coop and Dogfight players, with the Coop players begging Oleg for the option of a normally modeled Corsair -- but it didn't happen. That all may have been "fixed" since then, as I've not played this sim since 4.04. I stood on the Coop side on this issue, and would have been happy if both sides could use an option for this.

Same with the trim, as Offline and many Online players wanted correctly working trim in the "full real" flight model mode, and having it as an option would have benefited all, as I could understand the reason for anonymous public panties getting seriously bunched up over slider trim exploits.

[Ratsack]

I don't minimise the problem at all. For my part, as I said earlier, I wish the sim had never been cracked. However, I take exception to the high handedness of some posters saying that other players have no valid opinion.

I wish there were some toggle function between a 'fixed' online model and a moddable offline play. A moddable area of the sim might have provided an outlet for some of the more enthusiastic rivet counters and 'my little pony is porked' players. It might have done so without threatening the precious purity of the online dogfighters. (Purity of essence, anybody?)

It wasn't done, and we're where we are. I don't see the sky falling, however. There may be those who cheat. Well phuck 'em, I say. If you see one, ban them. In the meantime, I'd rather play against adults. It's not the end of the world if it is now possible for somebody to cheat. It's not great, but hey, don't play with cheaters.

cheers,
Ratsack

[LEXX]

Ratsack::

I don't minimise the problem at all.

I'm there. If the shared sim is restricted by artificial limitations that prevent cheating in anonymous public servers, the Offline players and other types of Online players are hurt.

Assuming I understand BillFish's recent poasting last page, I can see that Offline players have no opinion on Online play, and they don't want any opinion! This does not contradict the above statement, as the Offline players may have, and have had in the past, core opinions on the restrictions that hurt them in Offline play -- crippled trim for example.

I think that's what I'm trying to say. mmmm