IL2 and Sound Modding

[Ratsack]

Originally Posted by Billfish

Even dail-up not as limiting as it used to be. There is a ...

All this "i'm so social I sit on the forums all day, yet when it comes to my play I become an anti-social recluse" is simply hogwash.

K2

That's all nice speculation, but none of it addresses the issue that the onliners are here - online - and we see these polls and respond to them. I have personally run into players of this game in the real world, who do not play on line, and have no idea that this that or the other forum even exists.

I, for instance, did not know about the Ubi forum at all for the first few years of my IL-2 playing experience. I was mercifully free of the knowledge of the trolls and spammers that inhabit that place. Any so called 'poll' over there would've missed me, even as the others do now because I don't deign to respond.

It is pure fantasy to suppose that this tiny little bunch of bickering trolls represents the player base that allows Oleg to make a living. Do the maths.

cheers,
Ratsack

[LEXX]

Good poast RatSack. Who knows how many Offline players besides yourself did not learn about supporting websites while Online players(*) would learn very quickly, by definition.

(*) Say a family has a brother and sister who play FB Offline, and one day Pa sets up a LAN for them. They would now be "online" players or at least "multiplay" but still offline from the larger online world and may never find out about it all. This of course is an interesting but purely theoretical counter-example that is probably safely ignored.


robtek::

I would like it the way it is right now: buy the game, pay for substantial upgrades and
leave the online play for donated servers.

Yes, a donated server is a volunteer Pay-to-Play server, which in this sim share the restrictions and limits on immersive features of the "free" servers in the attempt to prevent social cheating behavior through computer coding.


Bear::

When I started simming highspeed was the exception... today it is the rule and dialup is the exception.

In Ussia perhaps. The growing number of people in the rest of the world who are gaining access to game-worthy computers for the first time may not have the new Ussian standards of high speed internets. So we are back to where we started. No matter the numbers made up by anybody here -- if its 50% Offline and 50% Online, they would then have to be willing to share the sim equally, provided the developer is willing to allow them to share.

[Billfish]

Welp, I tried....Tried to present ways throughout these threads so some modding group, any group could take a leadership role....Yet none got it, right down to trying to give the modders a way to lay claim to their rights to do this...All refused, so ok, I agree..........Only 5% of all players are onliners.

That said, here is what your forcing of this point generates whether you realize it or not....

To change a system, you must be part of it. Most here as pro-modders claiming to be 100% offliners, most of the balance claiming only rarely to only in the past. Fair enough.

Point blank, anyone claiming to NOT be an onliner instantly whether they realize it or not just devalued their opinions as to the mods and how they affect the gaming community to nill/0/zip/nadda.........Most deffinately you may have an opinion. Sadly however it doesn't count. Anyone here with even a minimal intelligence realizing that you have put yourself into a position of nothing to lose, everything to gain, and feeling no responsibility to the online community as it does not affect you in any way shape or form. Many even clearly stating they point blank "Do NOT Care".

Once again, you may have an opinion, yet to the online community it doesn't count.

So that leaves a supposed 5% of all sales to count....Most here having clearly through numerous posts having stated over and over their on/off line affiliations so everyone else knowing who's opinion is of value in this discussion......As only, I say again, ONLY online players are affected, and therefor have a valid opinion as to modding and its affect upon the simulation online community. They are the only ones at risk here, they are the only ones that must endure any abuse caused by the mods, they are the only ones who in the end and as proven by the numerous pro-modding offliners are concerned for the integrity of the sim knowing the value of online play.

Do not try and now justify the validity of your statements if having claimed to be an offliner, as just as many did by modding in the first place, you have yourself, excluded yourself from having a valuable opinion risking your own play as to the affect of modding on online play.

Congratulations 95%, this is the harvest you have sown. I give in to your number and await the valid 5% to discuss the issue that affects them at hand.

K2

[Ratsack]

Originally Posted by Billfish

....

Congratulations 95%, this is the harvest you have sown. I give in to your number and await the valid 5% to discuss the issue that affects them at hand.

K2

That would have to be the most arrogant post I've seen from you, and it's not worthy of you.

Calm down and think again.

cheers,
Ratsack

[Billfish]

Why would I rethink something I have since the beginning of this debate pushed the opposing side to realize. Having waited and rehashed over and over hoping someone would get the hint as they'll naturally not be "told". Why would I continue battling a position with my goal being the detriment of my own positions foundation.....I offered up the chance over and over as did many others, yet the "offline" groups claim is firm.

Nothing arrogant about it....You either risk and therefor have a stake in it, or do not and therefor do not have to live with the effects of it. It's a very simple concept...and if you'll review my posts in virtually everyone, you'll note I discuss responsibility....Responsibility taking ownership, and risking as much if not more.

Responsibility refused, no risk at all........This is not the situation I made, just a simple fact anyone can see.

K2

[LEXX]

Ratsack, actually, its fascinating if you think about it. Also revealing from a social behavioral standpoint is the Risk and Responsibility (RR) that BillFish poasted about next.

There does seem to be a growing Online player interest in modding up. The "responsible" Online modders don't visit no-mod servers, but both the mod and no-mod anonymous public server players are taking a "risk" of playing with "irresponsible" Online modders who visit either mod or no-mod anonymous public servers. It appears that even the AAA modders' server, which I think is an anonymous public server, has seen at least one (1) example of mod cheating. If that is the case, then that must be the ultimate PROOF of Online mod cheating and tells us that mod cheating has nothing to do with mods but everything to do with social behavior.

By the "95 Percent" accounting rule, the 95 took on 95% of the financial risk and financial responsibility in Oleg's sim.

[Ratsack]

It's just a nonsensical and arrogant position. To assert that people who bought the sim have no valid opinion is arrogance of the worst sort. To assert that they have no valid opinion because they don't play in your particular sand pit is not just arrogant, it's ignorant.

I actually wish the sim had never been cracked. But that has nothing to do with the fact that I fly 50-75% of the time off line. As far as I can see, LeB is trying to discredit and discard the opinions of a section of the IL-2 using public. She at first tried to discount them on the grounds that they're not really a majority, and when that didn't fly she's tried to argue they have no 'stake' anyway.

It smacks of debating-team rationalisation. The guts of it is that LeB thinks off liners will generally hold opinions different to hers, so she attempts to discredit or minimize that opinion. It's rude, if nothing else.

cheers,
Ratsack

[ElAurens]

Wait a frickin minute here.

DerAlte is saying that the publisher should take legal action agianst someone who supports the developer's and publisher's position that decompling the sim (hacking) is theft of intellectual property because that person is hurting future sales?

This is the single most twisted piece of non-logic I have heard in my 54 years on this planet.

Honestly son, did you read you own post?

[Billfish]

Not at all and you can "misread" into what I say whatever you want, yet the point still stands........

"As far as taking a risk of having ones play disrupted, onliners are the only ones taking that risk"....

No one cares whether or not an offliner uses mods, or hacks their planes to X-wing fighters for that matter......Their sim, they're hurting no one, so what.......Yet it's all to easy for an offliner to say "roll out the mods mild to wild, no one gets cheated" as it does not affect them.

It does onliners only.....and it is that group which can have their play ruined by irresponsible modding generating unfair unable to be detected mods, and aiding those select few that WILL cheat......

So yes, as to modding affecting play for the negative, only onliners the "5%" you all pressed for have justification in stating applicable opinions on.

and if you don't understand that basic concept at this point, then I can't explain it further. Just how it is.

K2

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

Wait a frickin minute here.

DerAlte is saying that the publisher should take legal action agianst someone who supports the developer's and publisher's position that decompling the sim (hacking) is theft of intellectual property because that person is hurting future sales?

This is the single most twisted piece of non-logic I have heard in my 54 years on this planet.

Honestly son, did you read you own post?

Yes boy, I did. I live in Germany and Laws are different than maybe were you live. That means I can not scare away customers or harras the customers. Regardless of my opinion of that company or not. Now, I am not saying that they WILL do that. It is just possible.

BTW, if I remember correctly, the EULA say "publisher" and not Oleg Maddox. So the software belongs to UBISOFT and no longer to Oleg Maddox. That is normal. Maddox games made the program for Ubisoft. I am sure that the fine print on the contract says that the intellectual property is owned by Ubisoft and not Maddox games. That is normal practice on the software branch. I may make the program, but normaly it is owned by the money givers. Why do you think it is published so strange. It is possible that Maddox Games has the say-so in Russia and were they publish it. But I think in the rest of the world it is Ubi.

You know EL, in every country the laws are different. What is a crime were you live, may not be a crime were I live.


DerAlte