UFO's and extra-terrestrial life

[Rattlehead]

Originally Posted by CharveL

than for UFO's, which is far more than "zero". Yes, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, yet there is none. NONE.

Not neccessarily.

The problems with evidence is that if for example Joe Soap alleges he saw or experienced something, he will either be labeled a crackpot or discredited. If someone in a position of importance sees or experiences something, he most likely will shut up about it. If not, he too would most likely be labeled a crackpot or dicredited. It's usually one or the other.

Hypothetical situation:

Some 'strange' craft crashes in my field. What do I do?
Well, most likely I would phone the local police station. They get to the scene and realise immediately that this is something that requires a higher authority. In comes the army/FBI.
Whatever evidence there is, will be confiscated right away in the interests of national security.

But let's say I don't phone the cops. I phone the local newspaper, or the local rag magazine. They come out, realise it's a huge story (potentially) and run a feature, claiming all sorts of wierd and wonderful things. There I stand with some strange piece of metal in a photo on the front page, claiming that it came from a UFO. I claim I have a truck load of the stuff back on my farm.

Depending on the credibility of the paper, it could go from a local joke into something more serious, and if so, I think I'd get a visit from a government agent before too long, if taken seriously.
Then what?

Maybe I send some pieces to a laboratory to be tested before notifying anyone. Maybe the test come back as 'unknown substance.' Would the lab phone me and tell me that, phone the local newspaper and ask them to run a story, or would they realise that they're dealing with something that needs to be reported to a higher authority like the military or a government agency? I'm guessing the latter?

No matter which way it goes, if something genuinely unexplained happened, then sooner or later (but most likely sooner) the military and government steps in, and they have all the resources under the sun to provide a counter-argument or provide counter-evidence to whatever people say. They have the authority to confiscate anything in anyone's possession in the interests of national security.

That to me is the problem with evidence in these cases.

But can we ignore the evidence of air, land and naval radar operators that have simultaneously tracked craft doing things and travelling speeds well beyond the envelope of any known aircraft? Why doesn't that count as evidence?
Is every single sighting (even by experienced pilots etc.) one of mistaken identity, tiredness or confusion?

Let's put it another way: no evidence of top secret black projects exist either. Not officially. Not one nut, one bolt. No evidence.
But we know they exist.

[Lixma]

Originally Posted by Rattlehead

Let's put it another way: no evidence of top secret black projects exist either. Not officially. Not one nut, one bolt. No evidence.
But we know they exist.

False analogy.

We know 'black projects' exist because we do have evidence for them. I can visit the museum and walk around a U2, an SR-71 or a F-117. No doubt in 25 years i'll be able to examine whatever the Skunk Works is working on today.

On the other hand in over 50 years of breathless testimony no-one as yet has been able to prove the existence of even an Extra Terrestrial 'post-it' note, let alone space-ship.

And best of all are the government agencies. They have been magnificent, haven't they? Who knew they could keep such a secret under wraps for so long. Bravo.

Relax with the religious talk, mate. It's off-limits.

This ET stuff actually is religious talk. Just look at the similarities....

UFO-Land has its own prophets to warn us of impending catastrophes. It has its own culturally specific witnesses, revered artefacts that get sent to some 'laboratory in Russia', dark forces pulling the strings in the background. Seems a hell of a lot of hard work to core out a cow's anus if you ask me.

[Rattlehead]

Originally Posted by Lixma

False analogy.

We know 'black projects' exist because we do have evidence for them. I can visit the museum and walk around a U2, an SR-71 or a F-117. No doubt in 25 years i'll be able to examine whatever the Skunk Works is working on today.

On the other hand in over 50 years of breathless testimony no-one as yet has been able to prove the existence of even an Extra Terrestrial 'post-it' note, let alone space-ship.

And best of all are the government agencies. They have been magnificent, haven't they? Who knew they could keep such a secret under wraps for so long. Bravo.

Lixma, my point was that yes, we know black projects exist because we have been allowed to know. The SR-71 and other aircraft was eventually disclosed.
But how many years was that plane in development, being worked on ,tested, flown etc. before anyone outside of those that needed to know, knew a thing? And the same applies to any other plane that has come before or since as well. (Or any other piece of top-secret hardware for that matter.)

Who is the person or body that is running the inside scoop on the projects and revealing them to the public?

[Lixma]

Originally Posted by Rattlehead

Lixma, my point was that yes, we know black projects exist because we have been allowed to know. The SR-71 and other aircraft was eventually disclosed.

The difference is that these aircraft/projects are conceived and controlled from day one by the government. They know exactly where these aircraft are and where they will be at any given moment. They have the luxury of dedicated, strictly off-limits test ranges in which to fly these aircraft and when they do venture out into public airspace the controllers know exactly the expected flight path. So if anything goes wrong there is an established infra-structure that will kick in to recover the aircraft ASAP. But all this is still at the mercy of the Real World. The U2 was as top secret as they come - and yet it went from first flight to being very publicly shot down in the space of just 5 years. Secrecy is almost impossible to maintain and easily lost.

Compare that to the ET situation. Allegedly, extra terrestrial craft are zooming about all over the globe. Presumably our governments have no say in where or when they fly. So if a saucer comes down (and is discovered) it will be the locals, the emergency services, the press and the police that come into contact with the wreckage/bodies long before the black helicopters even spool up their engines. The government will be the last ones to know and the last ones to react. But by that time it would have gotten out. And even if 'they' managed to put a lid on that particular crash there's always the next one. And the next one.

There is no government on Earth that could successfully keep the existence of regular visits/crashes by extra terrestrials under wraps. Goverments cannot control what they have no control over.

Sorry for getting all aphoristic at the end there.