Post links to 'cheating using the soundmod' tracks here:

[JG52Uther]

'Today I learned that a friend of mine had his leg blown off this week in Iraq fighting terrorists.THAT is important.This is not'

You missed that bit off your quote.


And you did'nt quote this one either:

'zapatista seems to know more about modding in il2 than I ever will!
Although I love these mods,I have 2 installs of il2. Unless I am playing with friends,I use the unmodded version online.'


Yes I will only use the mirror offline,although no one has actually made one yet.

Done talking to you.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

'Today I learned that a friend of mine had his leg blown off this week in Iraq fighting terrorists.THAT is important.This is not'

You missed that bit off your quote.

no i didnt. you'r cheapening and disrespecting the tragedy your friend experienced, to bring it up here as somehow justifying your previous pro hack statements, which is why i didnt respond to it.

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

'And you did'nt quote this one either:
'zapatista seems to know more about modding in il2 than I ever will!

one moment your pretending no cheating is possible or happening, then in reply you get lots of posts proving exactly the opposite, and now your complaining the people arguing against the possibility of cheating online are actually hackers ? make up your mind.

it's this feigned ignorance and denying of how bad things are with hacks in il2 that bothers me the most with your lot posting here. half the time you dont even seem to know what is actually happening in your own little forum lair, but it doesnt seem to stop you making 50 posts pretending things are honky dory and it all doesnt matter.

fyi as a worst case scenario you now have people on full real servers flying with increased performance planes, set to no cockpits, and looking for enemy planes with fluorescent orange skins and triple sized il2 dots, etc.. does that mean this extreme form of cheating is rampant, no it isnt, but milder versions of that example are now a daily occurrence. add a gun gyro to your plane, a mirror, added visibility, its not a slippery slope, its an out of control bush fire !

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

'Show me the thread in which I promoted the hack? I see no evidence of links to websites,pictures of hacks,how to hack etc in any of my posts.

i'd say asking for new hack features fits the "promoting the hack" category, dont you ?

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

Yes I will only use the mirror offline,although no one has actually made one yet.

sure , i believe you. especially after the 10 pictures you added showing the real historical 109 E often did have a mirror. it wouldnt really be a big deal using it online then right ? i mean , other planes already have mirrors to, right ?

[jasonbirder]

I can't help but think we're all being diverted away from the real argument here if we only discuss the pro's and con's of the Sound Mod in terms of whether any form of online cheating occurs...

The bigger picture is that the vast majority of IL2 play is offline rather than online (Oleg is quoted as saying approximately 95% of players are Offline players...which would fit well with industry estimates for the typical Online/Offline ratio of gameplayers) and of the people that do play online...only a proportion of them will play on Hyperlobby - with the rest playing on their own dedicated or squadron servers or through peer to peer connections...
So even if there is any cheating it is not something which will affect the vast majority of IL2 players.


Besides cheating has always been possible in IL2 - its not a new subject for discussion...Prnt Sreen, disconnecting, lag manipulation have existed for a long time...as has gamesmanship such as flaps on a slider, trim abuse, altering the gamma on your monitor so you can see through the G blackout etc etc...so to imply that before the existance of the Sound Mod everything was great, following its release everything is appalling is a complete misrepresentation of the situation...I can quote from threads about Online cheating that were posted back in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 etc etc...

Besides...how prevelent is it really? Even if it is possible to manipulate the game on closed servers...is it really occuring with any regularity? For all the ping pong arguments in this thread...there are no examples of genuine online cheating refered to here...merely examples of people showing it is possible...I can only assume that rather than servers being full of 1000 KPH Cr42s with Rayguns that in actuality life is continuing exactly as it was before the release of the Sound Mod.

And even if it did occur, surely its the responsibility of the Server Admins and players populating a server to identify and ban any offenders...If you choose to fly in an environment that allows and encourages cheating (IE: an open access serverwhere you are flying with random, anonymous people...in a competitive, stat-driven, win at all costs environment) surely you should take responsibility for making it a fair and enjoyable environment to fly in...rather than throwing that responsibility back onto the wider IL2 community who have no interest or stake in it whatsoever.

So in summary...Cheating doesn't affect most people, its not a new thing anyway, it doesn't seem to occur that often and perhaps stopping it is the concern of the hyperlobby players and server admins rather than a concern for the bulk of the IL2 community who are neither interested nor affected!

[Lo0n]

Originally Posted by jasonbirder

I can't help but think we're all being diverted away from the real argument here if we only discuss the pro's and con's of the Sound Mod in terms of whether any form of online cheating occurs...

The bigger picture is that the vast majority of IL2 play is offline rather than online (Oleg is quoted as saying approximately 95% of players are Offline players...which would fit well with industry estimates for the typical Online/Offline ratio of gameplayers) and of the people that do play online...only a proportion of them will play on Hyperlobby - with the rest playing on their own dedicated or squadron servers or through peer to peer connections...
So even if there is any cheating it is not something which will affect the vast majority of IL2 players.


Besides cheating has always been possible in IL2 - its not a new subject for discussion...Prnt Sreen, disconnecting, lag manipulation have existed for a long time...as has gamesmanship such as flaps on a slider, trim abuse, altering the gamma on your monitor so you can see through the G blackout etc etc...so to imply that before the existance of the Sound Mod everything was great, following its release everything is appalling is a complete misrepresentation of the situation...I can quote from threads about Online cheating that were posted back in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 etc etc...

Besides...how prevelent is it really? Even if it is possible to manipulate the game on closed servers...is it really occuring with any regularity? For all the ping pong arguments in this thread...there are no examples of genuine online cheating refered to here...merely examples of people showing it is possible...I can only assume that rather than servers being full of 1000 KPH Cr42s with Rayguns that in actuality life is continuing exactly as it was before the release of the Sound Mod.

And even if it did occur, surely its the responsibility of the Server Admins and players populating a server to identify and ban any offenders...If you choose to fly in an environment that allows and encourages cheating (IE: an open access serverwhere you are flying with random, anonymous people...in a competitive, stat-driven, win at all costs environment) surely you should take responsibility for making it a fair and enjoyable environment to fly in...rather than throwing that responsibility back onto the wider IL2 community who have no interest or stake in it whatsoever.

So in summary...Cheating doesn't affect most people, its not a new thing anyway, it doesn't seem to occur that often and perhaps stopping it is the concern of the hyperlobby players and server admins rather than a concern for the bulk of the IL2 community who are neither interested nor affected!

get out! you're not allowed such reasoned discourse here!
lol
ahh jason, that is about the best summary going.

[Rama]

No, it's not a "reasoned" discourse. It's a discourse of someone trying to proove a point and obvioulsy not sharing onliner concerns.
In an other thread I allready showed that onliners are one important part of this sim and that a big amount of the toys you're playing with in this sim were made by onliners... without them, the sim would never have became what it is now... so you can't just ignore them.
Now there's no threat on "offliners" or "free modders". hacked tools to modify at will 4.08 are available, and this will not change.... so from now on, everybody will be able to mod 4.08 to the extend he wants... and it's not gonna change.... even after 4.09 will be available.
Now there's a real potential problem online.... you want some track to proove it... just do a google search and you'll find plenty. If you want to find you will...
Discussing about it is also not going to change anything. So far by playing Aiforce War? I didn't saw obvious use of these possibilities (as somme seen on dogfight servers), but there's no doubt it's gonna come, and becomes a real problem.
My only hope is 4.09, to restore onliners confidence and keep this game still strong online until SoW:BoB.... (and in this case "free modders" will be happy with 4.08, or even 4.09 without using appropriate "CRT=3".... and onliners will be happy... )
There's absolutly no need to debate and to flame... the only thing we can do is.... wait...

[Baron]

Originally Posted by Rama

No, it's not a "reasoned" discourse. It's a discourse of someone trying to proove a point and obvioulsy not sharing onliner concerns.
In an other thread I allready showed that onliners are one important part of this sim and that a big amount of the toys you're playing with in this sim were made by onliners... without them, the sim would never have became what it is now... so you can't just ignore them.
Now there's no threat on "offliners" or "free modders". hacked tools to modify at will 4.08 are available, and this will not change.... so from now on, everybody will be able to mod 4.08 to the extend he wants... and it's not gonna change.... even after 4.09 will be available.
Now there's a real potential problem online.... you want some track to proove it... just do a google search and you'll find plenty. If you want to find you will...
Discussing about it is also not going to change anything. So far by playing Aiforce War? I didn't saw obvious use of these possibilities (as somme seen on dogfight servers), but there's no doubt it's gonna come, and becomes a real problem.
My only hope is 4.09, to restore onliners confidence and keep this game still strong online until SoW:BoB.... (and in this case "free modders" will be happy with 4.08, or even 4.09 without using appropriate "CRT=3".... and onliners will be happy... )
There's absolutly no need to debate and to flame... the only thing we can do is.... wait...

But, if there are 10 000 people who only bought the sim for offline play since orginal IL2 it surly must mean that there are 10 000 offliners active right now...doesnt it?


Same with onliners, all the 700+ online at HL at any given day..is all the same 700+ in the intire world on any given day....surly?


And like u said.....onliners are only bagage, a group that has no effect on the game what so ever. Oleg would have been twice as successfull hadnt it been for online whiners.


And Zapatista, your waisting your breath, they agreed with u and "us" long ago, they are just making u pay for being right and are enjoying every minute of it.

I know we are right, u know it, they know it, who cares if they admitt we are? They wont admitt anything, unless hell freezes over.

[Rama]

Originally Posted by Baron

But, if there are 10 000 people who only bought the sim for offline play since orginal IL2 it surly must mean that there are 10 000 offliners active right now...doesnt it?

Absolutly not. I know a lot of casual offline simmers that bought the sim, played a bit, then garbaged it. Number of buyers isn't representative of offliners.
In fact, neither you or me do know the number of actual active offliners.... so please don't pretend they represent 95% of the players... you just don't know.

Same with onliners, all the 700+ online at HL at any given day..is all the same 700+ in the intire world on any given day....surly?

You can have a better way to count. Currently almost 25% to 30% of the players each night play AW (Airforce War). All AW players are registered, go on AW site and count.... you'll get around 1/4 (or less) of the number of online players.... except casual players of course.

And like u said.....onliners are only bagage, a group that has no effect on the game what so ever. Oleg would have been twice as successfull hadnt it been for online whiners.

I did say that?.... I said exactly the contrary... please don't distord my words.
Just ask yourself a question: how many planes, cockpits, maps, skins, tools, missions, campaign, online wars were made by onliners from the begining of the sim up to now?
Whitout this work, The sim would have been far to be as important as it is today. It would probably be unsupported today, and played only by a few nostalgics.... maybe with a small second life with a small modder community like CFS3 for example... but not more.

In any case, the debate is biased. Offliners and "free modders" have all what they want... why would they deny to the onliners some real protection in 4.09 (which is all they can hope) ? Give me any good bloody reason?

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Lo0n

get out! you're not allowed such reasoned discourse here!
lol
ahh jason, that is about the best summary going.

dont you get a bit embarrassed giving each other hand jobs in public ?

[Lo0n]

Originally Posted by zapatista

dont you get a bit embarrassed giving each other hand jobs in public ?

now this, this is a good one. can't answer the post, stoop to insults. you really are a fool zap. which is funny when you consistently insult others intelligence. i'm sensing a napoleon complex here, you know what that is short stuff?
jason's post is one of the non-hysterical posts, like beowulfs, in this thread. and he hasn't decided to just call you some kind of paranoid schizo for hte hell of it. i'd call that a reasonable post. maybe not one that you agree with but well, that's life.
comparing a game to disease control... that really is stretching the limits of credibility.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Lo0n

now this, this is a good one. can't answer the post, stoop to insults.

1) answered the post
2) responding to tag team of hack kiddies gratifying each other as if that adds weight to their arguments, even when what they said is completely nonsensical

Originally Posted by Lo0n

comparing a game to disease control... that really is stretching the limits of credibility.

you need to check the big word book again, its not a comparison, its an analogy

analogy
- noun (plural analogies) a comparison between one thing and another made for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
- the process of making such a comparison.
- a thing regarded as analogous to another; an analogue.

failed to understand the analogy perhaps ?