Dear MG

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by kendo65

I can see both sides here - I'd like some info myself, but I completely understand why Luthier would feel reluctant to post much here because unless he can produce an update that fixes everything in one fell swoop it will just lead to more negativity and attacks.

you see Kendo, this is exactly the point. First of all, Luthier himself is the only person responsible for this, since he's the one that went silent and didn't bother listening to the wise bunch of forum members who say "we know you can't fix it all in one go, fair enough, but for pete's sake keep us updated on what's happening, if anything to show some respect to people that have waited for this and supported your work for years".

The reality of software houses nowadays is one of extreme interaction potential: the reach out for info, documents, manuals, pictures etc is virtually limitless, using this potential is something that could achieve great, great results. I personally provided docs to Oleg himself during the early dev stages of CoD, found some more material for a friend at Daidalos, got in contact with museums, found pics, documents, with no need for compensations or recognitions, just for the sake of the sim's quality.

A development team that doesn't interact with the community, esp in the field of simulation, is a team that will make mistakes, which then will take time to fix. Oleg's leaving was already a bad sign, but I thought I'd stop being pessimistic, if anything it was Luthier the one that kept the communication channel opened, but this new attitude of theirs shows only poor managerial skills, it's a true shame, above all the fact that no matter how often we tell them "hey, some of us can help with our competence for free", they simply don't care.

And please remember that I still really really hope to be wrong.

[SG1_Lud]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

A development team that doesn't interact with the community....

....it's a true shame, above all the fact that no matter how often we tell them "hey, some of us can help with our competence for free", they simply don't care.

One thing is expecting for communication from the developers, other interacting with them, and other very different is that they accept the help of competent people.

In other past discussions like this, finally has arose that some competent veterans are particularly upset because they gave/offered help, and were ignored.

Some of these veterans, (not everyone, and I'd like to stress that IMO, clearly is not your case), have choosen to attack the developer/ game as much as possible.

This last ones are troublemakers, and is very easy for them to flame to forums with the idea of "we need more communication", because a lot of peaceful forum users will join gladly a thread, post or petition wrapped this way.

These users are so confrontated to other users that are fed up of the so called whines etc. , giving the appereance that we are a split community.

In fact, there are only a few troublemakers, and is those what we need urgently to receive attention from the mods if we want to keep this forum to continue as an attractive place for creativity, help and information.

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

And please remember that I still really really hope to be wrong.

Exactly, and IMO that is why, despite not being satisfied with the interaction, you are not creating trouble and I am fine with your opinions, even when I dont share them.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by LUD

Exactly, and IMO that is why, despite not being satisfied with the interaction, you are not creating trouble and I am fine with your opinions, even when I dont share them.

thank you LUD, it's good to see that more and more people understand my point. This witch hunt of the whiners, trolls and what not has become a hobby lately, and although there obviously are/were some, other people don't just complain, they just express their perplexity in front of a change of register that has become quite worrying.

The problem is the maturity of the people involved: if I was in an open IL-2 LAN event and heard two teenagers arguing over a silly matter, I would take the age into account and be less caustic or ignore them altogether, because I've been a teenager too and a very hot headed one; but in a forum, where you're just a nickname, everyone turns into a brash, full mouthed keyboard hero, which sometimes goes into very dangerous territories..

As mentioned somewhere else, I have been threatened by a delusional member of this forum, who I suppose has been banned, an (alleged) Australian police officer that started being offensive and threatened me, in pure "I'm the internet hero and I'll give you a good one" style. Now to think that this kind of people hang around armed normally is very worrying, but it gave me an idea of what distorted perspectives and behaviours people can get to in these places..

Anyway, sorry for the OT, let's keep on flying and hoping for good news soon..

[kendo65]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

you see Kendo, this is exactly the point. First of all, Luthier himself is the only person responsible for this, since he's the one that went silent and didn't bother listening to the wise bunch of forum members who say "we know you can't fix it all in one go, fair enough, but for pete's sake keep us updated on what's happening, if anything to show some respect to people that have waited for this and supported your work for years".

The reality of software houses nowadays is one of extreme interaction potential: the reach out for info, documents, manuals, pictures etc is virtually limitless, using this potential is something that could achieve great, great results. I personally provided docs to Oleg himself during the early dev stages of CoD, found some more material for a friend at Daidalos, got in contact with museums, found pics, documents, with no need for compensations or recognitions, just for the sake of the sim's quality.

A development team that doesn't interact with the community, esp in the field of simulation, is a team that will make mistakes, which then will take time to fix. Oleg's leaving was already a bad sign, but I thought I'd stop being pessimistic, if anything it was Luthier the one that kept the communication channel opened, but this new attitude of theirs shows only poor managerial skills, it's a true shame, above all the fact that no matter how often we tell them "hey, some of us can help with our competence for free", they simply don't care.

And please remember that I still really really hope to be wrong.

I know, and I agree with everything you say. It just seems that Luthier has tired of getting burnt by the responses here (and I know the argument that it is their responsibility, that they're professionals and should be communicating, etc, and that members of the community such as yourself were actively involved in providing info and help). I'd like to hear what the situation is too, but it'll only happen, it seems, when the devs are ready. The situation (both with the game and the communication) is far from ideal, but the constant clamour for news is not working.

It has developed into a bit of a stand-off between some members here and the devs. I think the effect of confrontation here is similar to anywhere else - if people feel they're not being respected they dig the heels in and become less compliant - that goes for the devs too, who despite agreeing that things need to be improved are probably sick to the back teeth of reading the comments here.