IL2 and Sound Modding

[fabianfred]

all these arguments about "the sound mod CAN be used to cheat on-line...".... so what?

that doesn't mean that everyone who uses the mod WANTS to cheat....

cars CAN kill...but that doesn't mean everyone driving a car is a killer...

I have been using the mods for months...and am very active in the AAA forums.... I am certainly not lacking in intelligence (IQ=140)...but I do not see anywhere how the anti crowd can claim that it is EASY to hack the FM.... it is certainly not right there in front of your face.... you may have to go looking deep in the files to be able to do so....

and to make those kind of changes requires the use of 'Qtims sfs extractor tool'... which is NOT a part of the mod kit...and has to be got from another source...if you want to use it

I believe that MOST of the people using the mods have just downloaded what is available from the AAA site...and are not interested in making their own

To label everyone who uses the mods as cheats is ridiculous...

But for those who adamantly deny themselves the use of the mods..... you are very soon about to miss out on some of the most interesting work which has been done.......
new maps are in progress.......the Aleutians..... The Slot..... Truk .... N.W.Europe ..... Malta.....
and also a boon for ground pounders... the ability to destroy certain 'objects' with normal strafing ammo...especially the AA gun mounts on warships.... and the small fishing boats

[Rama]

Originally Posted by fabianfred

that doesn't mean that everyone who uses the mod WANTS to cheat....

cars CAN kill...but that doesn't mean everyone driving a car is a killer...

What you don't understand is that there's not police online to prevent or punish you for cheating (as there is on the road with your exemple).

So either cheating is impossible because the software prevent it.... or there will be cheat.
Of course not every online gamer is a cheater. But only a very few of them can ruin online play.... just because honest players will loose confidence in online "security", inflamatory wars will begin on forums with peoples accusing other to cheat (wether these accusations are justified or not doesn't matter... accusations have no impact when everybody believes the software is safe, they begin to hurt and instillate the doubt when most believes the software isn't fully safe)... all these leading to a dramatic reduction of the online crowd after some time.

[Viking]

Why is it that everyone assumes that we all are onliners? 95-99% of the users of this sim are offliners and most don’t give a hoot about all the online ranks and points.

I will use what is available in hard and software to make this simulation as realistic and enjoyable as possible and I will ask no one of permission to do so!

A small clique of militant online users have for years dominated and controlled the forum, debating and development of the sim but thanks to the mods the power and control is now in the hands of the users.
This is the biggest shot in the arm that this sim had had in years!

To not exploit this development would be foolish and will seriously hamper the sale and life of the simulation we all care for so much

It can be made better and more realistic for the majority and the minority tries for selfish hierarchical reasons to put a stick in the wheel.

[Rama]

Originally Posted by Viking

Why is it that everyone assumes that we all are onliners? 95-99% of the users of this sim are offliners and most don’t give a hoot about all the online ranks and points.

Actually I don't believe these numbers. I know a lot of offliners too, and I think the correct statement should be: " 95-99% of the peoples that purchased this sim are offliners"... most of them having garbaged the game since long time, some of them playing once a month or less, and a few relativelly active (playing at least once a week).
based about the peoples I talked with (in meetings, sim events in RL, etc...), my guess is that the number of active offliners isn't bigger than onliners.

... but in any case, it doesn't matter... offliners got everything's open with the 4.08 hack... they can't ask for more.
So the remaining problem IS with onliners.

I will use what is available in hard and software to make this simulation as realistic and enjoyable as possible and I will ask no one of permission to do so!

And Let me tell you.... as long it doesn't ruin my online play... I don't care. You can do everything you want in your home.
I just hope 4.09 will restore a secure online play, in order to stop a reduction of the online crowd that will decrease if not...

.../... To not exploit this development would be foolish and will seriously hamper the sale and life of the simulation we all care for so much

On this one you're totally wrong.
Most of the offline purchasers did buy IL2 originally... then garbaged it. Much less of them bought PF and even less 1946.
The one that did, did it only because there was very active forums + lots of free advertizing with screenshots, movies, Stunt patrol (including in RL meetings), and passionated onliners making demonstrations in various RL events like Sim Salon, etc... All of these done by offliners.
You also forget that a lot of content of IL2/AEP/PF/1946 were donne by modders (a big part of the planes and cockpits, maps, etc...) with official M:1C control, and you got also a lot of skinners, mission creators, online war creators, etc....
A huge part of what's inside and outside the game was done by players.... MOST of them beiing onliners... So the game wont be what it is without the onliners.... it probably would just be a long forgotten sim, just used by a few nostalgics...
... or be the toy of a reduced offline modders crowd... like CFS3 for exemple.

So... you can spit on onliners as much as you want.... the game wont be what it is without them... and would probably have ceased to exist long time ago.

[JG52Uther]

I agree Rama.This is the only sim I have had constantly on my system for nearly 7 years.I play it several times a week,and love it now as much as I did the day I bought it.
I believe onliners make up a much more significant percentage than was previously thought.Then again,I have no proof of that,so its my opinion only.
If Oleg can make 4.09 secure then that would be the ideal solution for everybody.
Modders can stick with 4.08 online,while everyone else will naturally move to 4.09.
Or have 2 installs.

[Viking]

No facts and many assumptions there Rama! You live in the online world and that is all you see, check in to Hyperlobby any time of day, how many players do you see? That is all that bought this sim? I don’t think so!

No spitting from my side just trying to get this discussion into reality mood.

[Rama]

Originally Posted by Viking

No facts and many assumptions there Rama! You live in the online world and that is all you see

Wrong... there are many facts in what I said... read again.
BTW: I'm part of the modders... those who participated in modding the sim under M:1C control... those who did some of the toys you're flying in or on...
In your arguments, you totally forget the huge amount of work done by official modders (those who did it with M:1C quality control)... you seems to think no modding has been done before the avaibility of the hacked tools... as many others in this discussion...

Let's just consider one thing: You think modders work for the "community"... then you can't be more wrong..
Modders work to please themthelves, to do things that interest them. Giving tools to the "community" is just a bonus that may give a little ego boost. This is true for all modders, controlled by M:1C before the hack or actual ones with total freedom. But when M:1C was controlling and refusing bad quality stuff (or asking modders to redo or to modify the work to reach quality standards), then you could use everything without questions, it was "part of the game" as soon as delivered (in patches or addons)... and that's probably why a very few peoples realise the extend of modding that was done before the hack.
Without quality control, you get no filtering... so the user has to do the filtering by himself.
Just think about this...

how many players do you see? That is all that bought this sim? I don’t think so!

Read again what I wrote. I never pretended most buyers were onliners.
Yes not all people that bought the game are onliners... but I highly doubt most of them are actually active offliners.

[II./JG1_Wilcke]

Salute!

Following this thread closely. Some really interesting stuff going on with this sim. Am I wrong to conclude that at this point 4.08 is pretty well compromised for online play?

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Rama

Actually I don't believe these numbers. I know a lot of offliners too, and I think the correct statement should be: " 95-99% of the peoples that purchased this sim are offliners"... most of them having garbaged the game since long time, some of them playing once a month or less, and a few relativelly active (playing at least once a week).
based about the peoples I talked with (in meetings, sim events in RL, etc...), my guess is that the number of active offliners isn't bigger than onliners.

... but in any case, it doesn't matter... offliners got everything's open with the 4.08 hack... they can't ask for more.
So the remaining problem IS with onliners.


And Let me tell you.... as long it doesn't ruin my online play... I don't care. You can do everything you want in your home.
I just hope 4.09 will restore a secure online play, in order to stop a reduction of the online crowd that will decrease if not...



On this one you're totally wrong.
Most of the offline purchasers did buy IL2 originally... then garbaged it. Much less of them bought PF and even less 1946.
The one that did, did it only because there was very active forums + lots of free advertizing with screenshots, movies, Stunt patrol (including in RL meetings), and passionated onliners making demonstrations in various RL events like Sim Salon, etc... All of these done by offliners.
You also forget that a lot of content of IL2/AEP/PF/1946 were donne by modders (a big part of the planes and cockpits, maps, etc...) with official M:1C control, and you got also a lot of skinners, mission creators, online war creators, etc....
A huge part of what's inside and outside the game was done by players.... MOST of them beiing onliners... So the game wont be what it is without the onliners.... it probably would just be a long forgotten sim, just used by a few nostalgics...
... or be the toy of a reduced offline modders crowd... like CFS3 for exemple.

So... you can spit on onliners as much as you want.... the game wont be what it is without them... and would probably have ceased to exist long time ago.

hear hear !!

very well said

[JG52Uther]

Hey zapatista we agree with something for once!