Post links to 'cheating using the soundmod' tracks here:

[DerAlte]

Bill, you quote the "mirror" and "gunsight" as unfair advantages. That is totally wrong. Both of these Mods are historical correct. Just because they were not implanted does not mean they are not correct. IMO, someonewho uses Track IR(tm) is unfair, why, because I don't have one (very hard to find here). That is the same logic you are using. I don't have it, so it is not fair.

DerAlte

[BSS_Sniper]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Bill, you quote the "mirror" and "gunsight" as unfair advantages. That is totally wrong. Both of these Mods are historical correct. Just because they were not implanted does not mean they are not correct. IMO, someonewho uses Track IR(tm) is unfair, why, because I don't have one (very hard to find here). That is the same logic you are using. I don't have it, so it is not fair.

DerAlte

Historical and unfair advantage in gaming are two VERY different things. You can go in a stock server and use stuff like that when the others there are expecting you to not have them. How hard is that to understand? The difference with TR is that the team that actually made IL2 made it with TR in mind.

[Billfish]

Rather stunning, and sadly, such an absolute waste.....You pro-modders have no idea of the potential you are throwing away. Yet you are, and more so being adults yet doing as a youngster would who scolded, so instead of acknowledging being that everyone knows, continues to compound it as though after enough times a wrong will become right.


Fact of the matter is simple, and everyone here knows it no amount of simply claiming opposite makes it not so......

* The sim was hacked....That was wrong.
* Those hacks and how to do so were released to the world whether available or not inconsequential as I bet 90% of the folks here had no idea how and devoted little time to it....That was wrong yet could of been corrected yet wasn't *1*.
* To avoid admitting the wrong of above, and suddenly greeted by the aclaim of many even more were generated and still are....and that was wrong to a point *1*
* It was stated by many from the beginning that the irresponsibility of sharing this work the way it was (laid out and exposed)....was wrong *1*
* Everyone realizes that when alterations (mods) are made that make an advantage of some over others for ANY reason....That is wrong *1*
* and anyone with even a shred of common sense knows there have always been cheaters in the sim, that the reason many have not is they didn't know how (and no matter how slight the advantage it's still a cheat) and therefor opened and exposed the cheating will simply get worse....It's simply common sense *1*

All the spamming, trying to recruit others to get on the bandwagon, claims there is nor can be such, and rediculous points of arguments and trolling simply compounding all the wrongs as there has all this time been a chance to make it right....and it's been deliberately ignorred as though the second the wrongs are acknowledged trying to make it right....Then you'll have to deal with admitting the wrongs.

You can get 99.999% of the players here to go along with it...It doesn't make it right, it only makes 99.999% of the players doing wrong.........So how do you make it right? *1*


*1*
It can't be undone, we all know that........Yet to continue as it has been only makes the problems we all know are coming compounded.....As I have said over and over and over, it's time for the pro-modding community to step up and try and make the wrongs of above livable for all.......As we ALL must live with the ramification we ALL know is coming.

First off, the tools and the help given to tearing apart the SFS are so distributed now it having been so long it's too late to stop the damage to be done there...A month ago or more maybe.

Next, the mods generated to date need to be collected, organized and recompiled into groups....Groups like default skins, AI flyables, sight alterations and so on.....Once done, the modders need to take a very very hard look at the work insuring it is up to the quality standard we've come to expect from Maddox Games. Those that don't either get reworked or tossed out...Then these things have to be tested thoroughly to insure no conflicts, bugs or errors.................Sounding like a pain in the rump yet? Well this is what Maddox games had to do with every patch and hence subsequent ones to fix errors found. Not that any of your mods have had bugs or errors awful familiar huh to what's been going on for years.

You must also, and this is a gigantic task, insure without a doubt that every single button and screw is historically accurate......BS like "well 500 planes had these out of 5,000" or "it looks ok to me even though I'm handed proof to the contrary" or "I think I read somewhere once" simply will not fly and will not be tolerated by a big portion of the community........The historical accuracy is what keeps people here, not the arcade "kinda sorta maybe's"........Find something like I mentioned before about spit sights, some had them some didn't?.......No problem, there is a NEW version of the plane, that way you don't have someone having an advantage over another unfairly...EIther one or the other version or is in the planeset used to possibly both...Yet then EVERYONE is on the same page.....Additional/new weapons, n/p get em right and accurate and add them into loadouts if all types had them or just the sub types applicable.......(and don't even try to tell us you're not going there, if not today you will tomorrow how it is, simply human nature).

Once you have a patch it MUST be recompiled in such a way that joe lazy cheater cannot simply look at the zipped files and instantly see what he can alter further......I'm assuming to some degree you're already doing this or are beginning to find the means from your .exe's. It MUST be presented in this way, or you're only compounding the wrongs above.

The patch above then should change the version number....Why? As that way, everyone who uses mods is on the exact same page not some having advantages over others.....Guess what, it works for non-modders to as their version doesn't match!....Kinda kills that whole unfair advantage and potential cheaters via the mod argument doesn't it?

On and on......It's simple, face the music, admit the wrong by TRYING TO CORRECT IT....That what we adults do, we face it, try and fix it the best we can and then and only then can you say you made a responsible effort.

Fact of the matter is this has put us ALL at risk......No problem if you just put yourself there, yet you put us ALL there the way things stand.......All the banter and nonsense only makes it worse...........As nobody, and I mean absolutly nobody is so naive or stupid to not know that advantages over others in play are cheats, no matter how small, no matter if only the client can see them or all.........and that the true cheaters, those really intending to cheat the game and online play are here and simply going to get worse.

It's a matter of responsibility, and once some responsibility is taken to try and at least chain the genie out of the bottle..........THEN you'll find your respect.

ALL OF US want more things in this sim then you all can even imagine....We all want changes and more content..........Yet we want it responsibly, not willing to risk it all for our own 1 petty thing.

It's your responsibility to do these things and more pro-modders.....As I said before, you broke it, you fix it............Past this I'm done with these two rediculous threads in this forum....How'd you all put it, ah yes:

Speak to the Hand! lmao

Bi*chfish out...

[fly_zo]

endless posts and yet no tracks to prove cheating ....

as for mods goes, its simple don't use them if you don't like them.... but they are out there and they are available to everyone so there is no disadvantage , like with trackIR ... not all player are using it but they can if they want to.... its their choice as the same as it is with mods

[TUSA/TX-Gunslinger]

Well,

I don't have one post with respect to this issue in GD/SIMHQ or here. In my years with Il2 I've been through:

1. .50 cal whine war
2. 151/20 whine war
3. 190 Cockpit bar
4. U.S. Aircraft are porked whine war
5. Spitfire is too uber whine war
6. Dot whine war
7. 100/150 Fuel whine war
8. Trim on a slider whine war
9. Many, many more.

Prior to the hack/mod, the personal attacks, name calling and continual repeat of the same point ad infinitum, was at least divided down "red/blue"-"US red/USSR red" stovepipes.

Not this time. I see folks attacking each other in the most vile, dogmatic and destructive ways. If you removed the technical and historical references, an outsider might actually mistake this for a religious war.

I see past friends and comrades insulting each other to the point where a few weeks of "cooling off" might never repair those relationships.

We've even slunk so low now, that past friends are judging each other by which FORUMS they frequent? "I saw you posted OVER THERE - you must be a cheat!".

The strength of the Il2 community was always first and foremost it's PEOPLE.

The only thing good about this issue is, for once, it's not about RED vs BLUE or nationalistic pride. The bad thing is that it pits onliners against offliners - and "loyalists" against "revolutionaries".

There are only three logical outcomes to this battle:

1) It will be fixed in 4.09 soon
2) A third party encryption program will be developed
3) Nothing will be solved (least likely possibility based upon past history)

In the end, all the dogma, rhetoric, gnashing of teeth and slinging of mud won't accomplish anything except the permanent alienation of those who have fundamentally different views over this issue.

- For the "fundamentalists": All signs point to a 1C fix in the near future. When you get your "fix" - how many folks will be left to fly with and against? How many months/years do you think it will take to "heal" any of this? Do you think you are now, not partially responsible for creating the "death of the sim" that many of you are predicting? Think about it, if you can.

- For the "revolutionaries": No amount of discourse will change anyone's mind. The mortar is set. You've taken it upon yourselves to challenge the system - if that's what you want to do - why do you expect everyone to support you? Why don't you realize that perhaps a bungled up installation of the mod might not cause online issues?

What goal are any of you attempting to achieve?

As far as I, and many of the "quieter" folks in the community are concerned - this entire episode is disgusting FROM BOTH POINTS OF VIEW.

A pox on both your houses, as you are both destroying the community!

S~ and good luck in your holy war. I hope I've angered all of you sufficiently to re-examine how your acting, at least.

Now that I've had my turn for an "emotional outburst" at least I feel better.

Gunny

[GOZR]

Well to me it's simple and here my advice .. until maybe 4.09 is fixed or SOW is out there only one solution for the Onliner that love adrenaline and fight...
It's "LOCKON / FLAMING-CLIFF" .... I can assure you that there are conciderably way less arcadish pilots there .. what a fun.. Sow is not out yet... my Lockon days restart again.. and same thing Hyperlobby etc.. just maybe a bit smarter this time.

Voila.. done.

Some Online pics last night

[han freak solo]

Well said and is the truth. At least at the zoo, this topic is finally taboo.

Originally Posted by TUSA/TX-Gunslinger

Well,

I don't have one post with respect to this issue in GD/SIMHQ or here. In my years with Il2 I've been through:

1. .50 cal whine war
2. 151/20 whine war
3. 190 Cockpit bar
4. U.S. Aircraft are porked whine war
5. Spitfire is too uber whine war
6. Dot whine war
7. 100/150 Fuel whine war
8. Trim on a slider whine war
9. Many, many more.

Prior to the hack/mod, the personal attacks, name calling and continual repeat of the same point ad infinitum, was at least divided down "red/blue"-"US red/USSR red" stovepipes.

Not this time. I see folks attacking each other in the most vile, dogmatic and destructive ways. If you removed the technical and historical references, an outsider might actually mistake this for a religious war.

I see past friends and comrades insulting each other to the point where a few weeks of "cooling off" might never repair those relationships.

We've even slunk so low now, that past friends are judging each other by which FORUMS they frequent? "I saw you posted OVER THERE - you must be a cheat!".

The strength of the Il2 community was always first and foremost it's PEOPLE.

The only thing good about this issue is, for once, it's not about RED vs BLUE or nationalistic pride. The bad thing is that it pits onliners against offliners - and "loyalists" against "revolutionaries".

There are only three logical outcomes to this battle:

1) It will be fixed in 4.09 soon
2) A third party encryption program will be developed
3) Nothing will be solved (least likely possibility based upon past history)

In the end, all the dogma, rhetoric, gnashing of teeth and slinging of mud won't accomplish anything except the permanent alienation of those who have fundamentally different views over this issue.

- For the "fundamentalists": All signs point to a 1C fix in the near future. When you get your "fix" - how many folks will be left to fly with and against? How many months/years do you think it will take to "heal" any of this? Do you think you are now, not partially responsible for creating the "death of the sim" that many of you are predicting? Think about it, if you can.

- For the "revolutionaries": No amount of discourse will change anyone's mind. The mortar is set. You've taken it upon yourselves to challenge the system - if that's what you want to do - why do you expect everyone to support you? Why don't you realize that perhaps a bungled up installation of the mod might not cause online issues?

What goal are any of you attempting to achieve?

As far as I, and many of the "quieter" folks in the community are concerned - this entire episode is disgusting FROM BOTH POINTS OF VIEW.

A pox on both your houses, as you are both destroying the community!

S~ and good luck in your holy war. I hope I've angered all of you sufficiently to re-examine how your acting, at least.

Now that I've had my turn for an "emotional outburst" at least I feel better.

Gunny

[kristorf]

Originally Posted by TUSA/TX-Gunslinger

Well,

I don't have one post with respect to this issue in GD/SIMHQ or here. In my years with Il2 I've been through:

1. .50 cal whine war
2. 151/20 whine war
3. 190 Cockpit bar
4. U.S. Aircraft are porked whine war
5. Spitfire is too uber whine war
6. Dot whine war
7. 100/150 Fuel whine war
8. Trim on a slider whine war
9. Many, many more.

Prior to the hack/mod, the personal attacks, name calling and continual repeat of the same point ad infinitum, was at least divided down "red/blue"-"US red/USSR red" stovepipes.

Not this time. I see folks attacking each other in the most vile, dogmatic and destructive ways. If you removed the technical and historical references, an outsider might actually mistake this for a religious war.

I see past friends and comrades insulting each other to the point where a few weeks of "cooling off" might never repair those relationships.

We've even slunk so low now, that past friends are judging each other by which FORUMS they frequent? "I saw you posted OVER THERE - you must be a cheat!".

The strength of the Il2 community was always first and foremost it's PEOPLE.

The only thing good about this issue is, for once, it's not about RED vs BLUE or nationalistic pride. The bad thing is that it pits onliners against offliners - and "loyalists" against "revolutionaries".

There are only three logical outcomes to this battle:

1) It will be fixed in 4.09 soon
2) A third party encryption program will be developed
3) Nothing will be solved (least likely possibility based upon past history)

In the end, all the dogma, rhetoric, gnashing of teeth and slinging of mud won't accomplish anything except the permanent alienation of those who have fundamentally different views over this issue.

- For the "fundamentalists": All signs point to a 1C fix in the near future. When you get your "fix" - how many folks will be left to fly with and against? How many months/years do you think it will take to "heal" any of this? Do you think you are now, not partially responsible for creating the "death of the sim" that many of you are predicting? Think about it, if you can.

- For the "revolutionaries": No amount of discourse will change anyone's mind. The mortar is set. You've taken it upon yourselves to challenge the system - if that's what you want to do - why do you expect everyone to support you? Why don't you realize that perhaps a bungled up installation of the mod might not cause online issues?

What goal are any of you attempting to achieve?

As far as I, and many of the "quieter" folks in the community are concerned - this entire episode is disgusting FROM BOTH POINTS OF VIEW.

A pox on both your houses, as you are both destroying the community!

S~ and good luck in your holy war. I hope I've angered all of you sufficiently to re-examine how your acting, at least.

Now that I've had my turn for an "emotional outburst" at least I feel better.

Gunny

Well put, here endeth the lesson (hopefully), but I doubt it

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by Billfish

Rather stunning, and sadly, such an absolute waste.....You pro-modders have no idea of the potential you are throwing away. Yet you are, and more so being adults yet doing as a youngster would who scolded, so instead of acknowledging being that everyone knows, continues to compound it as though after enough times a wrong will become right.


Fact of the matter is simple, and everyone here knows it no amount of simply claiming opposite makes it not so......

* The sim was hacked....That was wrong.
* Those hacks and how to do so were released to the world whether available or not inconsequential as I bet 90% of the folks here had no idea how and devoted little time to it....That was wrong yet could of been corrected yet wasn't *1*.
* To avoid admitting the wrong of above, and suddenly greeted by the aclaim of many even more were generated and still are....and that was wrong to a point *1*
* It was stated by many from the beginning that the irresponsibility of sharing this work the way it was (laid out and exposed)....was wrong *1*
* Everyone realizes that when alterations (mods) are made that make an advantage of some over others for ANY reason....That is wrong *1*
* and anyone with even a shred of common sense knows there have always been cheaters in the sim, that the reason many have not is they didn't know how (and no matter how slight the advantage it's still a cheat) and therefor opened and exposed the cheating will simply get worse....It's simply common sense *1*

All the spamming, trying to recruit others to get on the bandwagon, claims there is nor can be such, and rediculous points of arguments and trolling simply compounding all the wrongs as there has all this time been a chance to make it right....and it's been deliberately ignorred as though the second the wrongs are acknowledged trying to make it right....Then you'll have to deal with admitting the wrongs.

You can get 99.999% of the players here to go along with it...It doesn't make it right, it only makes 99.999% of the players doing wrong.........So how do you make it right? *1*


*1*
It can't be undone, we all know that........Yet to continue as it has been only makes the problems we all know are coming compounded.....As I have said over and over and over, it's time for the pro-modding community to step up and try and make the wrongs of above livable for all.......As we ALL must live with the ramification we ALL know is coming.

First off, the tools and the help given to tearing apart the SFS are so distributed now it having been so long it's too late to stop the damage to be done there...A month ago or more maybe.

Next, the mods generated to date need to be collected, organized and recompiled into groups....Groups like default skins, AI flyables, sight alterations and so on.....Once done, the modders need to take a very very hard look at the work insuring it is up to the quality standard we've come to expect from Maddox Games. Those that don't either get reworked or tossed out...Then these things have to be tested thoroughly to insure no conflicts, bugs or errors.................Sounding like a pain in the rump yet? Well this is what Maddox games had to do with every patch and hence subsequent ones to fix errors found. Not that any of your mods have had bugs or errors awful familiar huh to what's been going on for years.

You must also, and this is a gigantic task, insure without a doubt that every single button and screw is historically accurate......BS like "well 500 planes had these out of 5,000" or "it looks ok to me even though I'm handed proof to the contrary" or "I think I read somewhere once" simply will not fly and will not be tolerated by a big portion of the community........The historical accuracy is what keeps people here, not the arcade "kinda sorta maybe's"........Find something like I mentioned before about spit sights, some had them some didn't?.......No problem, there is a NEW version of the plane, that way you don't have someone having an advantage over another unfairly...EIther one or the other version or is in the planeset used to possibly both...Yet then EVERYONE is on the same page.....Additional/new weapons, n/p get em right and accurate and add them into loadouts if all types had them or just the sub types applicable.......(and don't even try to tell us you're not going there, if not today you will tomorrow how it is, simply human nature).

Once you have a patch it MUST be recompiled in such a way that joe lazy cheater cannot simply look at the zipped files and instantly see what he can alter further......I'm assuming to some degree you're already doing this or are beginning to find the means from your .exe's. It MUST be presented in this way, or you're only compounding the wrongs above.

The patch above then should change the version number....Why? As that way, everyone who uses mods is on the exact same page not some having advantages over others.....Guess what, it works for non-modders to as their version doesn't match!....Kinda kills that whole unfair advantage and potential cheaters via the mod argument doesn't it?

On and on......It's simple, face the music, admit the wrong by TRYING TO CORRECT IT....That what we adults do, we face it, try and fix it the best we can and then and only then can you say you made a responsible effort.

Fact of the matter is this has put us ALL at risk......No problem if you just put yourself there, yet you put us ALL there the way things stand.......All the banter and nonsense only makes it worse...........As nobody, and I mean absolutly nobody is so naive or stupid to not know that advantages over others in play are cheats, no matter how small, no matter if only the client can see them or all.........and that the true cheaters, those really intending to cheat the game and online play are here and simply going to get worse.

It's a matter of responsibility, and once some responsibility is taken to try and at least chain the genie out of the bottle..........THEN you'll find your respect.

ALL OF US want more things in this sim then you all can even imagine....We all want changes and more content..........Yet we want it responsibly, not willing to risk it all for our own 1 petty thing.

It's your responsibility to do these things and more pro-modders.....As I said before, you broke it, you fix it............Past this I'm done with these two rediculous threads in this forum....How'd you all put it, ah yes:

Speak to the Hand! lmao

Bi*chfish out...

With all due respect to you, you are dreaming. If you have ever heard the term "you can never go home"....well that applies here, to this sim. Just fly with people that you trust, and enjoy the game. It's not the end of the world, and lots of fun is still to be had.