Prop Pitch question...

[Rama]

Originally Posted by BSS_Sniper

I believe you got things mixed up a bit. Manual pitch control and constant speed propellers are the same thing. When you set a RPM with your prop lever you are doing two things, changing the angle of the blade AND setting a particular RPM. Neither change with power (manifold pressure) inputs.

Sorry, but you're wrong.
With CSP, inside the CS governor limits, the blade angle WILL change with speed and attitude variations.
Since Speed and attitude will change il you change power (manifold pressure), then blade angle WILL change.... and same if you use elevator input to climb or dive.

Manual pitch control is different: The pitch angle is directly controlled by the pitch lever.

With IL2, almost all planes are CSP equiped when they don't have fixed pitch.
Only Bf109 (and maybe Bf110... don't remenber...) use manual prop pitch when automatized control is off.
Even FW190 never use manual controlled pitch, but CSP when Kommandogerät is off.

[BSS_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Rama

Sorry, but you're wrong.
With CSP, inside the CS governor limits, the blade angle WILL change with speed and attitude variations.
Since Speed and attitude will change il you change power (manifold pressure), then blade angle WILL change.... and same if you use elevator input to climb or dive.

Manual pitch control is different: The pitch angle is directly controlled by the pitch lever.

With IL2, almost all planes are CSP equiped when they don't have fixed pitch.
Only Bf109 (and maybe Bf110... don't remenber...) use manual prop pitch when automatized control is off.
Even FW190 never use manual controlled pitch, but CSP when Kommandogerät is off.

I think you misunderstood me or vice versa. The RPM's remain the same after you set them with the prop lever is what I was trying to convey. Either way, this sim does not model anything even close to what should happen other than the RPM you see on the gauge.

I see you were refering to an old system "manual pitch" otherwise known as controllable pitch. Most aircraft are CSP if they have a prop lever today. That threw me off.

In any of the convention constant speed aircraft, for example the P51 or F6F Hellcat. If you have run low rpm settings with a high manifold pressure, you will/can damage the engine. The way you explained it makes it sound as if the blade angle will adjust for the MP change and it will not. In the 190's and 109's, its automatic.

[Rama]

Originally Posted by BSS_Sniper

In any of the convention constant speed aircraft, for example the P51 or F6F Hellcat. If you have run low rpm settings with a high manifold pressure, you will/can damage the engine. The way you explained it makes it sound as if the blade angle will adjust for the MP change and it will not. In the 190's and 109's, its automatic.

The blade angle will adjust for the MP change, until the the CS governor limit is reached, then blade angle will stay fixed and MP will change. (when low stop limit or high stop limit is reached)
This is actually modelled in the game, and with most of the planes, if you set RPM very low and Boost at max, engine will heat, then breake (so you can overtorque)
Overrev is modelled only for some planes, so with most off them you can dive with high RPM without risking overreving (which isn't realistic)

So I agree the game is much more tolerant to overreving and overtorque than reality..

For Bf109, the automatic control can be switched off, and then you get manual prop pitch (not CSP, but pitch direct input). This is correct in real and correctly modelized.
For FW190, when automatic control (Kommandogerät) is switched off, then you get the standard CSP for pitch control.

[BSS_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Rama

The blade angle will adjust for the MP change, until the the CS governor limit is reached, then blade angle will stay fixed and MP will change. (when low stop limit or high stop limit is reached)
This is actually modelled in the game, and with most of the planes, if you set RPM very low and Boost at max, engine will heat, then breake (so you can overtorque)
Overrev is modelled only for some planes, so with most off them you can dive with high RPM without risking overreving (which isn't realistic)

So I agree the game is much more tolerant to overreving and overtorque than reality..

For Bf109, the automatic control can be switched off, and then you get manual prop pitch (not CSP, but pitch direct input). This is correct in real and correctly modelized.
For FW190, when automatic control (Kommandogerät) is switched off, then you get the standard CSP for pitch control.

I believe you're just reading stuff on the internet without practical experience. You had me second guessing myself and doing that because of this sim could get me killed in RL. lol I even called my father who is a 30+ thousand hour professional pilot. He started on DC3's, Elektra's, DC4's and 727's. He basically said the same as I have. Please don't take this as flaming, it is not. Yes on CSP aircraft, the pitch will change if you change the MP, but only a minute amount. It will NOT make up for large changes in MP. A good example is at idle. Although I have my prop lever at full, I will still idle at about 700 rpm. The same goes if I am at a lower RPM and shove my throttle up to max MP, it will damage the engine because the prop governor will try to keep the RPM's constant, but the MP pushing the engine to its limits or past.

I have tested over and over for extended periods in game. I will take, for example, a P51 run it at full throttle and drop my PP to 50% and run all day without damage. That is what I'm talking about.

Again, I am only referring to standard US aircraft. I have very little knowledge of German, Russian and British planes.

[Rama]

Originally Posted by BSS_Sniper

I believe you're just reading stuff on the internet without practical experience.

Well... you're wrong... don't try to guess... just stick on what you know.
I have my pilot license (I'm only a sunday pilot) and I'm an engineer with quite good knowings in fly mechanics

Yes on CSP aircraft, the pitch will change if you change the MP, but only a minute amount. It will NOT make up for large changes in MP.

You didn't read or understood what I said.... well... it's not a big problem.

A good example is at idle. Although I have my prop lever at full, I will still idle at about 700 rpm. The same goes if I am at a lower RPM and shove my throttle up to max MP, it will damage the engine because the prop governor will try to keep the RPM's constant, but the MP pushing the engine to its limits or past.

I totally agree with that. It doesn't contradict what I said.
Like I said, in this case you will overtorque the engine.

I have tested over and over for extended periods in game. I will take, for example, a P51 run it at full throttle and drop my PP to 50% and run all day without damage. That is what I'm talking about.

Now try at full throttle and 0% PP... you will see (I'm not 100% sure for the P51, but for other planes I experienced in game engine heating and breakdown after a few minutes)

So In game overtorque IS modelled, but not reastically, the game is too tolerant (and even more for overreving)
... as I said in previous post.

[BSS_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Rama

Well... you're wrong... don't try to guess... just stick on what you know.
I have my pilot license (I'm only a sunday pilot) and I'm an engineer with quite good knowings in fly mechanics


You didn't read or understood what I said.... well... it's not a big problem.


I totally agree with that. It doesn't contradict what I said.
Like I said, in this case you will overtorque the engine.


Now try at full throttle and 0% PP... you will see (I'm not 100% sure for the P51, but for other planes I experienced in game engine heating and breakdown after a few minutes)

So In game overtorque IS modelled, but not reastically, the game is too tolerant (and even more for overreving)
... as I said in previous post.

Respectfully, you being an engineer has zero bearing on your weekend knowledge of being an amature pilot. For the sake of simplicity, the pitch angle does not change with throttle changes. I'll see if I can get some other professional pilots in here. My dad just shakes his head at this. He recalls the worst pilots he ever flew with were the ones that were too "book smart". There's more to flying than by the book, you gotta feel it and live it. If you can't get past all the technical/books you'll be confined in a box.

The game is exceptionally tolerant to anything concerning CEM to the point of being arcadish.

[Rama]

Despite you saying "respectfully", you don't show much respect... no problems... if you feel superior, that's your problem.
It's just making a difference with all the pro pilots I know... all very nice guys.
... and you obviously you have a problem with understanding CSP mecahnical fonctionning and CS governor...
CS governor controls pitch angle and adjust it to keep RPM constant. that's why when you adjust throttle pitch do change (adjusted by CSP to keep RPM constant).
not much knowing is needed to understand that... look there for example: http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/...wing/props.htm