The silence is deafening...

[carguy_]

Originally Posted by Orpheus

If you can't take the heat, you shouldn't be in the kitchen - they must have known what kind of response the game would receive in the early stages and prepared themselves for that. To drop communication now because a few idiots have been a bit nasty to them would be childish, irresponsible and insulting to the people who've paid for the game.

Yes, cutting off the communication would be a mistake. It`s one of the reasons why I even put up with this game. Now in the first month Luthier did speak many times about the game`s condition and he has answering those whiners as much as legit complaints. Now how do you expect him answer to the same complaint over and over? We have information on the biggest bugs/holes so we wait for updates. I`m all for a locked update thread where Luthier posts the updates and reports, just the way it was with Oleg`s dev update thread.

And, as another poster mentioned, not communicating because your players are angry just makes them even more angry, so it becomes a vicious circle that will only end when you grow some balls and take the criticism - which, had you communicated in the first place, probably wouldn't be as bad.

Wrong! Those people will be mad whatever the case. Always concentrating on the negative, always demanding the impossible. You mad over 1C ignoring those dombells?

Another point - yes, 1C are the Russian publisher, and we know Ubi are responsible for international publishing and distribution.

However - we come here because it is the best way of getting information straight from the people making the game, and because Sukhoi.ru is inaccessible for many of us due to the language barrier. If Luthier & the team posted on the Ubi forums, I expect most of us would be there instead. The only beta patch links posted on the Ubi forums that I can see have been users linking to this forum, not dev posts - so for now the Ubi forums are 'useful' only for user chat about the game, not finding out actual info on progress or other technical issues. If the dev team stop posting here too, the game will die off completely - as very few will be willing to wait in the dark for the myriad technical bugs and problems to be fixed, not knowing if a fix will even happen.

The game will die off regardless of the condition of this forum if it`s not fixed on time. It`s about 4 months since Europe release and it`s going forward slowly. Poeple will keep checking for patches. 1C needs to provide an entrance for 3rd party improvements like Jiri Footjasek or people will just forget. We`ve had little to no communication from devs on ubi forums since 2005 when the last Oleg`s Ready Room input has been made. But IL2 lived on.

When/if the US release hits this weekend, we're going to see the moaning increase tenfold as they go through all the same crap we've had since release. If the dev team couldn't cope with the 'negativity' before now, come Monday it'll be ten times worse.

I`m on the job. We gonna manage!

From a personal standpoint, if the devs do act like children and refuse to provide at least some information on their progress, I for one will never play CloD again - because to release a game in this state, followed by several patches that in most cases break as much as they fix (if user reports are accurate), and then to just clam up because people are angry is the very height of stupidity and arrogance. I'll have no dealings with a company that refuses to communicate with its customers, or one that slinks off and hides when the going gets tough - especially when the problems are almost entirely of their own making.

Children? How do you think "I for one will never play CloD again" sounds?! The communication will not stop, but is going to be restricted to one sided reports from dev team on what has been fixed and what not. Because the moaners proved once again that conversations or discussions are dead from the very beginning. Aswell with IL2, with CloD there were discussions with dev team but since they always ended up the same, it`s just a waste of dev`s time.

[Orpheus]

Originally Posted by carguy_

Yes, cutting off the communication would be a mistake. It`s one of the reasons why I even put up with this game. Now in the first month Luthier did speak many times about the game`s condition and he has answering those whiners as much as legit complaints. Now how do you expect him answer to the same complaint over and over? We have information on the biggest bugs/holes so we wait for updates. I`m all for a locked update thread where Luthier posts the updates and reports, just the way it was with Oleg`s dev update thread.


Wrong! Those people will be mad whatever the case. Always concentrating on the negative, always demanding the impossible. You mad over 1C ignoring those dombells?


The game will die off regardless of the condition of this forum if it`s not fixed on time. It`s about 4 months since Europe release and it`s going forward slowly. Poeple will keep checking for patches. 1C needs to provide an entrance for 3rd party improvements like Jiri Footjasek or people will just forget. We`ve had little to no communication from devs on ubi forums since 2005 when the last Oleg`s Ready Room input has been made. But IL2 lived on.



I`m on the job. We gonna manage!


Children? How do you think "I for one will never play CloD again" sounds?! The communication will not stop, but is going to be restricted to one sided reports from dev team on what has been fixed and what not. Because the moaners proved once again that conversations or discussions are dead from the very beginning. Aswell with IL2, with CloD there were discussions with dev team but since they always ended up the same, it`s just a waste of dev`s time.

Agreed on all points but the last, and good on you for being around to help if the US release does go ahead (that CEM startup video thread in Gameplay Questions needs a sticky, that'd stop half the posts right there )

I see how you could read my comment as an equally childish reaction, but I should say it's not a knee-jerk thing. I've had a lot of patience for this game (though at release I was outraged, along with everyone else - but that was inevitable). I'm happy for it to take some time, as long as it ends up utilising its full potential.

It's more that than anything else which is my main concern - the squandering of potential. With each patch, something else seems to break for someone: AA works, then doesn't, we're told crossfire works, but it doesn't, the game uses more memory since the last patch, it's not utilising multiple cores correctly, the MP is b0rked in so many ways it doesn't bear mentioning, preflight loadouts no longer work... etc etc. The list goes on and on.

This would be at least tolerable with regular communication from the developers outlining roughly what improvements they're making and how long it will take to implement them. Over time I've come to realise that, in terms of launch and post-launch support quality, this is quite literally the worst game I have ever purchased. I have never seen, or even heard of a game released in the state that CloD was, let alone to still have massive, obvious issues this long after release.

If this were any other product, the customer would be outraged and rightly so. In the current gaming climate, it is becoming more and more acceptable to release a game in an unfinished state, then patch it. Sometimes it's not the fault of the devs - see recent articles in the gaming press regarding Magicka, which was actually released before the devs thought it would be - and if it is the case that Ubi forced the game out before it was ready, I'm prepared to be a lot more forgiving.

But to release, then press on with no comment, no response or information is no longer acceptable in this communication age. I'm prepared to be patient, I'm prepared to extol the good points of this game and present the problems in a reasonable manner, and my recent review of the game reflects that. But if all communication ceases because they couldn't cope with a few moaners, when in actuality they've received far less flak (no pun intended) than any other release of comparable quality due to the fact that this is a niche genre with few supporters, I would find that quite insulting, and probably respond by simply giving up and buying a different flight sim. Eagle Dynamics have at least the same complexity of task as the 1C devs, and apparently they nearly always find time to respond to their customers - so the line that there's just too much work to do doesn't wash with me.

I have high hopes for this game, and always have. Each day without communication, even if it were merely a 'hi guys, we're still working on it', reduces those hopes, and by extension my desire to support, and play the game. If communication ceases, then my support ceases - not because I want to give them the finger out of spite, but simply because my goodwill only stretches so far.

[kotka5]

Originally Posted by Orpheus

Agreed on all points but the last, and good on you for being around to help if the US release does go ahead (that CEM startup video thread in Gameplay Questions needs a sticky, that'd stop half the posts right there )

I see how you could read my comment as an equally childish reaction, but I should say it's not a knee-jerk thing. I've had a lot of patience for this game (though at release I was outraged, along with everyone else - but that was inevitable). I'm happy for it to take some time, as long as it ends up utilising its full potential.

It's more that than anything else which is my main concern - the squandering of potential. With each patch, something else seems to break for someone: AA works, then doesn't, we're told crossfire works, but it doesn't, the game uses more memory since the last patch, it's not utilising multiple cores correctly, the MP is b0rked in so many ways it doesn't bear mentioning, preflight loadouts no longer work... etc etc. The list goes on and on.

This would be at least tolerable with regular communication from the developers outlining roughly what improvements they're making and how long it will take to implement them. Over time I've come to realise that, in terms of launch and post-launch support quality, this is quite literally the worst game I have ever purchased. I have never seen, or even heard of a game released in the state that CloD was, let alone to still have massive, obvious issues this long after release.

If this were any other product, the customer would be outraged and rightly so. In the current gaming climate, it is becoming more and more acceptable to release a game in an unfinished state, then patch it. Sometimes it's not the fault of the devs - see recent articles in the gaming press regarding Magicka, which was actually released before the devs thought it would be - and if it is the case that Ubi forced the game out before it was ready, I'm prepared to be a lot more forgiving.

But to release, then press on with no comment, no response or information is no longer acceptable in this communication age. I'm prepared to be patient, I'm prepared to extol the good points of this game and present the problems in a reasonable manner, and my recent review of the game reflects that. But if all communication ceases because they couldn't cope with a few moaners, when in actuality they've received far less flak (no pun intended) than any other release of comparable quality due to the fact that this is a niche genre with few supporters, I would find that quite insulting, and probably respond by simply giving up and buying a different flight sim. Eagle Dynamics have at least the same complexity of task as the 1C devs, and apparently they nearly always find time to respond to their customers - so the line that there's just too much work to do doesn't wash with me.

I have high hopes for this game, and always have. Each day without communication, even if it were merely a 'hi guys, we're still working on it', reduces those hopes, and by extension my desire to support, and play the game. If communication ceases, then my support ceases - not because I want to give them the finger out of spite, but simply because my goodwill only stretches so far.

+++1

++++1 my point too, but put in an educated way. See altos I'm not the only one who see's that communication makes the games problems bearable.

[Ze-Jamz]

Well i have always said i think they should communicate..i think its the biggest gripe and moan on these forums and i dont understand why a locked thread with small updates isnt here..sure with everything that is posted your open another side by side thread moaning and bitching about said topic but at least were know..

[ZaltysZ]

Originally Posted by Ze-Jamz

i dont understand why a locked thread with small updates isnt here..

Because there are no small updates. There is the dev team, and its members do assigned tasks according to schedule. If milestone is reached, we get an update.

More frequent updates are unlikely, because :
a) no sane manager is going to harass workers by querying them for progress constantly, as that interrupts their work;
b) even if huge amount of information is collected from workers, someone needs to translate it to human language and strip specific details, whose have meaning only to devs. That can easily end with boring weekly "Rendering engine has been modified further" or with something similar.

The point is that we maybe don't get an update, because there is nothing to update us with.

[Winger]

Originally Posted by ZaltysZ

Because there are no small updates. There is the dev team, and its members do assigned tasks according to schedule. If milestone is reached, we get an update.

More frequent updates are unlikely, because :
a) no sane manager is going to harass workers by querying them for progress constantly, as that interrupts their work;
b) even if huge amount of information is collected from workers, someone needs to translate it to human language and strip specific details, whose have meaning only to devs. That can easily end with boring weekly "Rendering engine has been modified further" or with something similar.

The point is that we maybe don't get an update, because there is nothing to update us with.

Maybe. But that doesnt change that more and more people start to get upset. Just like me.

Winger