IL2 and Sound Modding

[Antoninus]

How do they want to do that? Wouldn't it require to rewrite an essential part of the games source code, which they don't have, to implement new encryption methods? Oleg will surely not make Il-2 open source just to help the hackers to fix the problems they have caused.

[robtek]

It would be like to set a fox to keep the geese.
And i am shure there would be a back door in that "locked" fm.

robtek

[sparty72]

Just out of curiosity ( killing cats an all)... sensible non aggressive posturing answers please..not that i'm probably gonna get any.... what exactly is it gonna take to settle this?...simply put & btw i use the mod but i dont hack (dont know how) & i dont fly online cus i dont really care to anymore so..that aside... can this be sorted or is it all done n DONE now a schism?

Best Regards

Sparty

Ps ..dont shout at me...means nowt! ... ive heard ducks fart before!

[carguy_]

Originally Posted by sparty72

Just out of curiosity ( killing cats an all)... sensible non aggressive posturing answers please..not that i'm probably gonna get any....

which ends with

Ps ..dont shout at me...means nowt! ... ive heard ducks fart before!

As far as I`m concerned you`re not even looking for sensible answers.

can this be sorted or is it all done n DONE now a schism?

Everything can be brought back to normal.

Everything depends on what hackers do now.Good will may result in developping online anticheater tools but that is highly doubtful - there is no reason to trust them.The anticheater tool would be tested and, if succesful, accepted.
Since Oleg expressed his concerns about online fair play, he just might accept such a state of affairs.If that is okay with him, I don`t see a reason why anyone else should disagree.

If all this was done in the first place, the problem might have never appeared.

[Billfish]

Would it be fair, or make me a cheater in online play if I did the following to my sim software and others did not thinking we were on a level playing field and trying to keep it that way.

* Altered default skins to look different then normal, be they historical or arcade (Chartruse for German, Flourecent Pink for British, etc.), and or could highlight hitbox area's.....That ability why M.G. hardcoded default skins.
* Altered canopies to be different then how others saw them even making current obstructions in view gone.
* Altered cockpit components to improve view from in the plane, reducing or removing head rests and the like an example.
* Altered canopy glass and gunsights to be able to see better through them.
* Altered gunsights to have less obstructive reticles, even reducing or enhancing their brightness.
* Altered gunsights to be gyro stabilized and compensating to help me place my rounds more accurately.
* Altered bombsights to see clearly at a greater range.
* Altered early scope type sights to not black out the surrounding area.
* Added mirrors to planes that did not have them "in the sim", so I would have use of them when others did not.
* Had the ability to move about the cockpit more then others to improve my view, possibly even to impossible extremes, and with non existent parts of the cockpit making windows through it.
* Made planes and ground objects more visible to me via increasing reflectivity.
* Made visual cues as to other planes show better and longer even at further ranges by making smoke, fuel leaks and contrails more visible, lasting longer before fading and able to see them at greater ranges.
* Made planes and ground objects more visible at greater ranges, be it through improving dot range, or when such objects would show to me.
* Made terrain more visible at greater ranges helping in navigation.
* Made sounds distinctive so I could easily tell from inside a noisy cockpit what types of planes were near and weapons being fired and so on.
* Made sounds give greater audible cues as to the activity around me and its proximity to me.
* Had fire extinguishers in planes that others did not.
* Could see exaust flames (even though many planes had dampers) from other aircraft to help aid in spotting during low light conditions.
* Reduced my own gunflashes to not blind me, and or increased how I'd see others to aid in visual cues.
* Altered the torque of my engine....More giving me quicker rolls, less more stability .
* Etc. the list goes on........

......and I'll not even touch on altering weapons loadouts, types, FMs, DM,s and so on....


So, if I used any of the above in online play when others did not...........Would it be cheating? (careful of your responses as to say others would be suckers not to, or think not informs others as to your expected fair play).

[wgvette]

Billfish,
As I said before:

"No the only problem that exists is when someone uses the mod to deliberately change an aspect of his/her aircraft capabilities for online play against unaltered opponents. Then and only then does one become a cheat and that is the crux of the matter."

I guess I would have to say that doing what you said would be cheating. But, again only in online play.

What someone does with thier game in the privacy of thier own home, I could care less about.

[Billfish]

Originally Posted by wgvette

Billfish,
As I said before:

"No the only problem that exists is when someone uses the mod to deliberately change an aspect of his/her aircraft capabilities for online play against unaltered opponents. Then and only then does one become a cheat and that is the crux of the matter."

I guess I would have to say that doing what you said would be cheating. But, again only in online play.

What someone does with thier game in the privacy of thier own home, I could care less about.

Agree 100%........Hence the problem, as many of the mods shift the advantage unfairly "online".....What many fail to realize yet Oleg stated often, aspects of the sim sometimes had to be balanced either due to the engine or fair play (what was the majority of aircraft like).

......and to state EVERYONE should then use the mods online is like stating EVERYONE should do a wrong to make it right, this naturally not even touching on true cheaters, who do things simply to gain an edge which I accuse no one here of being yet we know they exist.

Trouble is, many of the mods never the less result in unbalancing the field......Let alone making it easier for the cheaters.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by carguy_

Look, you can talk drivel like that at your boards.I recommend going back to your hole.Evgeny is the boss here,so bite me.

Sorry, we will not stop informing about what has happened and what meaning it has for the il2 community.This serves as information for those willing to have it all explained.We are the counterbalance for those fogging the facts to get their way relevant.It takes about half an hour daily to counter posts like yours so it`s not much of a problem.

Yeah great, you had to let your own opoinion get in the way.As a result you opened Ubi forums for promotion of the mods with are AGAINST the developper.Get your facts straight, dude.You totally scewed it back there, now maybe you can refrain yourself from trolling here.

Well no.Those people are trying to twist anything to make the mods look good.Some guy who only just bought the game thinks he can do mods because it is ok.Well no, it is not okay,it is against Oleg Maddox and he should be informed about that aswell as the past and future consequences.Next thing is his choice on whether he wants to go deeper or not.

Evgeny did not say what he thinks about our work.He can always ask Oleg.
If Oleg Maddox says he doesn`t care/mind about the mods then the issue disappears alltoghether.
Meanwhile, nothing here has been posted about that, so you just go back to promoting so called mods on your forum while we can do our decent job here.

You think you deserve to be a mod?heh

Where have I promoted mods on UBI? You show me with a quote where I promoted mods at UBI? You can't find one because I never promoted mods.. so you get your facts straight bub. Show me where mods are "promoted" at UBI? Discussed.. yeah I did allow discussion.. to NOT do so is stupid. You can talk all the horsesmack you want to.. in the end the facts are still the same.. and I really don't care what you or anyone thinks of me or what I do at UBI.. this isn't UBI and it kills me that on more than one site I get told that "this isn't UBI man...." and "These aren't "your" boards.... LMAO... as if I had my own boards.. NEWSFLASH UBI isn't my boards.. I just moderate there... It is so funny to me that I am catching flak from both sides of the fence on this issue so AFAIC I must be hitting some chords. You can inform people without all the name calling and immaturity.. well maybe you can't but it can be done... I have seen people in this thread who have not changed their stance on the subject but have toned down the hostile rhetoric.... which is all I am saying.

Possibly so mate, but the records stuck, people are going over the same topic time and time again without actually getting anywere.
I was under the impression this was a forum to discuss 1C's present and upcoming games.

I accept that IL2 has been hacked/modded (depending on your point of view), but regardless of whats been said that will not be changed and more stuff will keep coming out to change the game.
However, there are two distinct camps here and I think they will never agree, or even agree to disagree so it may be time to close up shop and move onto a new topic.

As for the bore someone else, this is what the thread and some of the postee's are doing without my help, never mind.

Exactly....

Originally Posted by Billfish

This is very simple....
The modders/hackers placed the sim at risk and continue to do so....So yes, it has happened YET is made worse by continued efforts....Yet no matter how much griping, statements of "tough get over it" and etc. are made.....Most will not, and why should they forgive the wrong that continues to be heaped upon......So what makes you think that those especially making the hacks, yet also those who support and push for them.........Will EVER be welcomed by those who support the sim and Maddox Games hard work (that including 3rd party "official" work).

We have no reason to, the hackers keep compounding their transgressions doing nothing to resolve the situation to any degree.
K2

And this continuous back and forth by both sides does.... what.. to help the situation...?!! Oh yeah... we got some real resolution coming with all this banter right??!! So ... these guys are just supposed to say... oops we made a baddie... and put it back as it was? COME ON!!!! Humpty is off the wall..... at least if there was some kind of dialog other than the same cr@p back and forth then perhaps some kind of resolution in the form of an enhanced CRT or punkbuster type app... or something could be produced.... but this back and forth same old $hit over and over and over does absolutely NOTHING.... That is all I am saying....

I am not saying OK the deed is done everybody modup and get on the bandwagon.... h@ll I have been to their site.. and y'know what... some of those mods DO offer some things that folks have wanted for a long time.... That is a fact. I have chosen to not use any of them because of the bottom line as to how they were done and I want to see what 1C is going to do.... and yeah.. before anyone quotes Oleg again.. I know what he said.... and I know what Ivan said.... but I am still waiting to hear from Oleg... and I mean more than the two comments I have seen on the issue this far..

First off all, that to make new check for that we need simply to rewrite too many things, icluding even file structure. It is simply impossible to make such a great job when we are totally busy with BoB...
I can't promise now... but my guys in research what is possible by minimal human/month busy schedule...
Say "Thanks" guys who did it... and who do not understand what they did for online community...
Oleg Maddox

and

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox

I personally hate any hack that may damage fair online gameplay.

So that's what I am waiting for..... At least Kelly is coming up with facts and points..... but some of you are just rehashing and rehashing the same old name calling and BS.... and then some of the pro mod folks come over here and just post.. and they get lambasted..... it is getting old... if it accomplished something then great... if every thread like this got more paste back in the tube then great.. but it doesn't.. and time marches on and the schism gets wider...

All the points Kelly made in this post:

Originally Posted by Billfish

Would it be fair, or make me a cheater in online play if I did the following to my sim software and others did not thinking we were on a level playing field and trying to keep it that way.

* Altered default skins to look different then normal, be they historical or arcade (Chartruse for German, Flourecent Pink for British, etc.), and or could highlight hitbox area's.....That ability why M.G. hardcoded default skins.
* Altered canopies to be different then how others saw them even making current obstructions in view gone.
* Altered cockpit components to improve view from in the plane, reducing or removing head rests and the like an example.
* Altered canopy glass and gunsights to be able to see better through them.
* Altered gunsights to have less obstructive reticles, even reducing or enhancing their brightness.
* Altered gunsights to be gyro stabilized and compensating to help me place my rounds more accurately.
* Altered bombsights to see clearly at a greater range.
* Altered early scope type sights to not black out the surrounding area.
* Added mirrors to planes that did not have them "in the sim", so I would have use of them when others did not.
* Had the ability to move about the cockpit more then others to improve my view, possibly even to impossible extremes, and with non existent parts of the cockpit making windows through it.
* Made planes and ground objects more visible to me via increasing reflectivity.
* Made visual cues as to other planes show better and longer even at further ranges by making smoke, fuel leaks and contrails more visible, lasting longer before fading and able to see them at greater ranges.
* Made planes and ground objects more visible at greater ranges, be it through improving dot range, or when such objects would show to me.
* Made terrain more visible at greater ranges helping in navigation.
* Made sounds distinctive so I could easily tell from inside a noisy cockpit what types of planes were near and weapons being fired and so on.
* Made sounds give greater audible cues as to the activity around me and its proximity to me.
* Had fire extinguishers in planes that others did not.
* Could see exaust flames (even though many planes had dampers) from other aircraft to help aid in spotting during low light conditions.
* Reduced my own gunflashes to not blind me, and or increased how I'd see others to aid in visual cues.
* Altered the torque of my engine....More giving me quicker rolls, less more stability .
* Etc. the list goes on........
......and I'll not even touch on altering weapons loadouts, types, FMs, DM,s and so on....
So, if I used any of the above in online play when others did not...........Would it be cheating?

were excellent points as to how these mods can become unfair aids without altering FMs and DMs.... at least those comments served to enlighten, to add some relevant light on the subject but a lot of this other stuff is just like running around waving your arms in the air and screaming .....

[Viking]

Bearcat wrote…

“and I really don't care what you or anyone thinks of me or what I do at UBI.. this isn't UBI and it kills me that on more than one site I get told that "this isn't UBI man...." and "These aren't "your" boards.... LMAO... as if I had my own boards.. NEWSFLASH UBI isn't my boards.. I just moderate there...”

Yes you do own it! And no you don’t moderate it! You never did! In that sense Carguy is completely correct, but you will never realise this. Part of the disease I guess. It is really sad to think what that site could have been if the right management and moderation had existed.

The rest of this “mod” drama is bla bla to me as I exclusively use this sim offline and just look forward to the next patch and then to SoW that hopefully will be built to accept and control moderations.

Viking

[stalkervision]

Originally Posted by Antoninus

How do they want to do that? Wouldn't it require to rewrite an essential part of the games source code, which they don't have, to implement new encryption methods? Oleg will surely not make Il-2 open source just to help the hackers to fix the problems they have caused.

I don't really know but the possability is there. Obviously the code has been opened. Anything that has been unlocked can be locked in a similiar manner. From what i have seen the code/lock seems to be like a door lock and once inside, the game can be changed pretty easily. The "lock" doesn't extend throughout the game engine. Change that begining lock to something else and people will have to break into it all over to cheat on-line. That will keep the on-liners happy which I am all for. As long as the off-liners can modify the game to best suit there needs I don't mind if there is a basic simple on-line version.

The problem is that the on-liners have so alienated the mod community with all their petty, childish insults that they could care less by now to do anything for them.