Help For Luthier

[fireflyerz]

Lol , make it a pound a wav and you got a deal.

[tritosine]

hi guys!!

Im not a qualified expert but Im well versed on this topic.

Just for your interest, this engine sound simulation modeling topic is pretty hot right now. Electrical automobiles are coming, and low sound output is a concern , you can especially think of for kids younger than 9 yo, and ppl older than xx. So theres much research going on how to build artificial sounds for these vehicles.

In 3-5 years 10-20% of cars will be electric and hybrid, so all of a sudden you have a new safety hazard because they have no sound. Children under nine and adults over 70 can only determine how close something is by sound. We will develop different algorithms for different car engines and materials to correlate with speed sound pattern for safety.

http://www.fastcompany.com/1755478/i...an?partner=rss

I bet they use stream processors for the task , not x86 cpu.

The entire 1C umbrella of companies should also see this as an opportunity , and either rely on FPGA chips for sound acceleration ( via conventional usb port or something, or WLAN , or whatever) or use a GPU. Analog outputs should be also revolutionized, creative soundblaster blows by 2011-12 thats fairly certain.

Can you imagine how World of Planes or C o D would sound with dedicated hardware sounds? Too bad sound accelerators got nowhere, and x86 is clearly beaten by mobilephones. If mobilephones get floating point FPU coprocessor in the next years for speech processing and what not , thats going to kick intel i7 butt too, FYI. I firmly beleive 1C should sell hardware for our serious wargame needs. Even next gen consoles would be so jealous of our stereo3D and sound acceleration.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

skosh im very very familiar with the copyright laws, especially where sound is involved having been a recording artist. Lets say for example that i take an engine sound out of another game and change the wave format of that sound, it would be absoloutley impossible to take me to court and prove that i had not recorded that sound myself.

However if they were worried about ownership of the sounds you could always buy them from here, 99p a track.

http://www.field-recording.org.uk/

But without asking for and receiving permission to do so you'ld still be stealing the work from the artist/technician that did all the work and should be compensated for their efforts, which is a low thing to do.

If you are familiar with the copyright laws why did you ask your question?

I know! Maybe the people making the mods should sample WWII era moives for their sounds.

They'ld mostly be in the public domain by now! A reach for the Skies sound mod would be cool!

[Ataros]

As far as understand it is OK to use soundmods online if they do not modify any other files than sound files. The issue with current sound mods is that they modify engine config files to force DB and Merlin using separate samples.

I think we can ask modders to make a lite version of their mods that do not modify anything but sound files.

I remember reading at least once in early May that a basic sound mod that was available back then helped to solve sound disappearing issues when using external views (Current 1st person multiplayer sound bug was not introduced back then yet).

Of cause do not try any mods online if you think $50 is a lot to loose just for experimenting purposes.

ps. Also we can ask luthier to officially approve at least one sound mod for online. I would vote for Jafa's one but it is not available yet. But we can start talking to luthier about this anyway.

[Thee_oddball]

Originally Posted by Ataros

As far as understand it is OK to use soundmods online if they do not modify any other files than sound files. The issue with current sound mods is that they modify engine config files to force DB and Merlin using separate samples.

I think we can ask modders to make a lite version of their mods that do not modify anything but sound files.

I remember reading at least once in early May that a basic sound mod that was available back then helped to solve sound disappearing issues when using external views (Current 1st person multiplayer sound bug was not introduced back then yet).

Of cause do not try any mods online if you think $50 is a lot to loose just for experimenting purposes.

ps. Also we can ask luthier to officially approve at least one sound mod for online. I would vote for Jafa's one but it is not available yet. But we can start talking to luthier about this anyway.

i read just like you what Luthier said about the mods...there would be wide spread bans without warning

but i am not sure VAC definitions have been written yet given the constant flux of the game.

If the sound mod can fix the online bug then we SHOULD be allowed to use it without penalty and when it is officially fixed we should be notified so we may revert back to stock.

S!

[Trumper]

I shouldn't hold your breathe on them asking for external help Tree.

[xnomad]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

What track records that ?

A secure anti cheat sound generation engine that stopped online hackers using sounds as radar !!!

Are you kidding? There is inexhaustible evidence of bad planning/management in the development of this game, that really isn't even debatable.

Now look at all my previous posts, I'm not a hater and I enjoy this game, but to sugar coat it and say that their track record so far is good, is taking it a bit too far. Yes I feel I've got my money's worth and I'm grateful for all the hard work that the devs are putting in but I can still state my opinion can't I?

I don't know why you are bringing up the 'anti cheat sound engine' I wasn't talking about that.

As I said I can live with the sound, but I think they've got a chance to start from scratch so they might as well take this opportunity and get it right, but I in my opinion I don't think they will.

When the new sound engine gets released I'll happily admit I'm wrong about this if they do improve the sounds, otherwise I'll dig this thread up again and say "I told you so". I hope I'm wrong.....

[Les]

I actually dislike hearing the same 'air-show fly-by' sound that plays regardless of where the plane is located in space and what it's engine is doing at the time, more than I do the gutless synthesized lawn-mower engine kind of sound effect.

Which is to say, I personally prefer 'Dynamic' sounds rather than 'Canned' sounds. That is, sounds that change dynamically depending on what's happening in the game, rather than pre-recorded sounds that just stop and start depending on what's happening in-game.

It's my understanding that Maddox games also prefer to use Dynamic rather than Canned sounds.

The problem as I see it is that their synthetic dynamic sounds simply lack the range and detail of the more 'organic' canned sounds that you can get with good quality field-recordings.

I honestly think if their synthetic sounds were just 'beefier' and didn't loop with such obvious digital precision there'd be a lot fewer compaints about the sound in general. And it puzzles me why they haven't ever 'beefed-up' and randomized their sounds more.

The kinds of plane engines we have in-game should raise the hairs on the back of your neck and strike fear into the hearts of your enemies when they're cranked up. If they were realistically depicted, people would start up the engines in their planes and just sit there revving the motor up and down like engine enthusiasts do in real life.

The current sounds are so far from that, and always have been, that it isn't funny. But I don't see ripping the sounds from other sources as a solution, even if you can find a way to 'get away with it'.

In my opinion the developers need to stick with using a dynamic, synthetic, sound system like they have in the past. But they need to introduce more variables into their sounds, pushing the complexity of it right up to the technological limit, and they simply need to find a way to make their engine's sound-samples sound more like they do in real life.

I suspect though, that to re-create those bone-rattling, hair-raising sounds using synthesized sounds would require a level of sonic artistry and mastery that most 'audio-guys' wouldn't have. Kind of like handing someone a Rembrandt and asking them to recreate it from scratch in some kind of 'Paint' program. Some people could do a pretty good job of that, but does Maddox games have access to audio artists of that calibre?

The way I see it at the moment is, the sounds of the engines lack the same detail and level of accuracy/authenticity that, for example, the graphical depictions of the planes have.

And beyond that, and just as important I'd say, the game has large amounts of it's potential sounds absent altogether. There's a long way to go in that regard too.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter. Just stating the obvious.

If they're re-doing their sound engine altogether, I hope they're doing it in such a way that it can call up more samples in a more complex arrangement than before, and that the samples themselves are more complex and tune-able than before, so that they can be made distinguishable from each other while still retaining that base-level grunt or power that these engines should have.

[Ibis]

Originally Posted by Les

I actually dislike hearing the same 'air-show fly-by' sound that plays regardless of where the plane is located in space and what it's engine is doing at the time, more than I do the gutless synthesized lawn-mower engine kind of sound effect.

Which is to say, I personally prefer 'Dynamic' sounds rather than 'Canned' sounds. That is, sounds that change dynamically depending on what's happening in the game, rather than pre-recorded sounds that just stop and start depending on what's happening in-game.

It's my understanding that Maddox games also prefer to use Dynamic rather than Canned sounds.

The problem as I see it is that their synthetic dynamic sounds simply lack the range and detail of the more 'organic' canned sounds that you can get with good quality field-recordings.

I honestly think if their synthetic sounds were just 'beefier' and didn't loop with such obvious digital precision there'd be a lot fewer compaints about the sound in general. And it puzzles me why they haven't ever 'beefed-up' and randomized their sounds more.

The kinds of plane engines we have in-game should raise the hairs on the back of your neck and strike fear into the hearts of your enemies when they're cranked up. If they were realistically depicted, people would start up the engines in their planes and just sit there revving the motor up and down like engine enthusiasts do in real life.

The current sounds are so far from that, and always have been, that it isn't funny. But I don't see ripping the sounds from other sources as a solution, even if you can find a way to 'get away with it'.

In my opinion the developers need to stick with using a dynamic, synthetic, sound system like they have in the past. But they need to introduce more variables into their sounds, pushing the complexity of it right up to the technological limit, and they simply need to find a way to make their engine's sound-samples sound more like they do in real life.

I suspect though, that to re-create those bone-rattling, hair-raising sounds using synthesized sounds would require a level of sonic artistry and mastery that most 'audio-guys' wouldn't have. Kind of like handing someone a Rembrandt and asking them to recreate it from scratch in some kind of 'Paint' program. Some people could do a pretty good job of that, but does Maddox games have access to audio artists of that calibre?

The way I see it at the moment is, the sounds of the engines lack the same detail and level of accuracy/authenticity that, for example, the graphical depictions of the planes have.

And beyond that, and just as important I'd say, the game has large amounts of it's potential sounds absent altogether. There's a long way to go in that regard too.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter. Just stating the obvious.

If they're re-doing their sound engine altogether, I hope they're doing it in such a way that it can call up more samples in a more complex arrangement than before, and that the samples themselves are more complex and tune-able than before, so that they can be made distinguishable from each other while still retaining that base-level grunt or power that these engines should have.

================================================== ======

Give this man a big fat cigar.
That is the best critique of the sound problem I've heard, or rather read, in hundreds of posts on the matter.
thanks Les,
Ibis.


.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Les

I actually dislike hearing the same 'air-show fly-by' sound that plays regardless of where the plane is located in space and what it's engine is doing at the time, more than I do the gutless synthesized lawn-mower engine kind of sound effect.

Which is to say, I personally prefer 'Dynamic' sounds rather than 'Canned' sounds. That is, sounds that change dynamically depending on what's happening in the game, rather than pre-recorded sounds that just stop and start depending on what's happening in-game.

It's my understanding that Maddox games also prefer to use Dynamic rather than Canned sounds.

The problem as I see it is that their synthetic dynamic sounds simply lack the range and detail of the more 'organic' canned sounds that you can get with good quality field-recordings.

I honestly think if their synthetic sounds were just 'beefier' and didn't loop with such obvious digital precision there'd be a lot fewer compaints about the sound in general. And it puzzles me why they haven't ever 'beefed-up' and randomized their sounds more.

The kinds of plane engines we have in-game should raise the hairs on the back of your neck and strike fear into the hearts of your enemies when they're cranked up. If they were realistically depicted, people would start up the engines in their planes and just sit there revving the motor up and down like engine enthusiasts do in real life.

The current sounds are so far from that, and always have been, that it isn't funny. But I don't see ripping the sounds from other sources as a solution, even if you can find a way to 'get away with it'.

In my opinion the developers need to stick with using a dynamic, synthetic, sound system like they have in the past. But they need to introduce more variables into their sounds, pushing the complexity of it right up to the technological limit, and they simply need to find a way to make their engine's sound-samples sound more like they do in real life.

I suspect though, that to re-create those bone-rattling, hair-raising sounds using synthesized sounds would require a level of sonic artistry and mastery that most 'audio-guys' wouldn't have. Kind of like handing someone a Rembrandt and asking them to recreate it from scratch in some kind of 'Paint' program. Some people could do a pretty good job of that, but does Maddox games have access to audio artists of that calibre?

The way I see it at the moment is, the sounds of the engines lack the same detail and level of accuracy/authenticity that, for example, the graphical depictions of the planes have.

And beyond that, and just as important I'd say, the game has large amounts of it's potential sounds absent altogether. There's a long way to go in that regard too.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter. Just stating the obvious.

If they're re-doing their sound engine altogether, I hope they're doing it in such a way that it can call up more samples in a more complex arrangement than before, and that the samples themselves are more complex and tune-able than before, so that they can be made distinguishable from each other while still retaining that base-level grunt or power that these engines should have.

+1 on all counts, especially the dynamic nature of sound.

I used mods in IL2:1946 because it was a case of weaker sounding looping samples vs throatier sounding looping samples.

In CoD however i don't use mods yet, because the stock in-cockpit sounds are dynamic enough to let me understand what's going on with the engine. This helps me loads in flying full CEM, so i can't go to looped samples just yet.