Turn Down Head Shake

[Seeker]

Any increase in head shake would just be more fake realism.

Yes, it should be increased as a response to involuntary movement such as turbulence and crossing wake turbulence (but is that even modelled?).

But it should be less for voluntary movements, especially in the lateral plane.

F1 drivers don't get thrown about as much as we do, and they experience far, far higher lateral G loads then we do.

There could be an argument that high G loads should perhaps cause more movement in the vertical axis, and if you want more realism, then under high G loads possibly Track IR response speed could be slowed.

But more head shake just for the sake of it is just more childish "more 'ard is more real" macho rubbish.

[smink1701]

Just to be clear...the only time I notice head shake is when firing the 109's guns. Then the shake is way overmodeled IMO. At other times I can not detect any headshake at all.

[Timberwolf]

I find just flying the plane is werid I might of never flown a Spitfire or Me-109
However I have flown a Cessna, CF-18 Hornet and a few other planes none of them have the bounce of up and down when lining up a target..And i'm not talking about close in where prop-wash might be a problem I have tried trim control to which was no effect.. I can't see it as wind because then when banking with a enemy fighter you would have turbulent flow or a cross wind effect which never shows up I never have to use my rudder to correct

I seen in auto-pilot moving in on a bandit theres no bounce also watched to see if the trim moves in auto ..no

This would be a thing to fix or atleast have it in expert player mode if people like it But to me Its more of a bug then a real sim

So for those that don't know what im talking about Your target is say 1,000 ft Your behind it at 900ft. You do a small angle climb and level off at 1,015 ft you push down 1/2 sec and your now deg 5% down angle ..it never really levels off right where you want it theres no snap of the control...add shake to this its almost unreal

[Shado]

Headshake??? what headshake, you need to turn on your epilepsy filter mate...........

[skouras]

Originally Posted by Shado

Headshake??? what headshake, you need to turn on your epilepsy filter mate...........

[ARM505]

The most I've pulled IRL is 4g (obviously vertical), and it just squashes you into your seat, you do NOT get 'thrown around'. Generally, when you're going to fly an aircraft that is capable of these kind of g-loads, you get strapped in really tight. Very rapid roll rates (ie 300 dps+) do tend to slam your head to one side, but if you're the guy flying you're going to know it's coming and try to counter (When you're not the guy flying, it sucks) I've stalled light aircraft literally hundreds (if not thousands) of times, and that doesn't even come close to 'shaking' your vision in such a way that it becomes noticeable. Sure, sure, Cherokee's, C172's etc aren't Spitfires, but hey. The worst bouncing I've ever experienced in aircraft is during (very) rough turbulence, and rough runways. So, I wouldn't raise the headshake levels much, if at all. One funny point I've noticed, not sure if others agree, is that with Track IR, I end up having to reset it every so often because my sight line has ended up low - almost as if the pilot has permanently 'shrunk' from pulling g's!

I can't say I've fired guns in aircraft (from ships, but that doesn't count I guess - I've stood right next to 20mm cannon firing from a patrol craft, and that certainly didn't bounce me around), but I work with several guys who have, obviously jets though (Mirage F1 & III, 2X30mm cannon mounted right under the pilots butt), and while they say you can certainly feel it, it doesn't bounce your vision around. And those are larger calibre, higher ROF guns, mounted closer to the pilot (on an admittedly heavier airframe) - I therefore also firmly believe the 109 cannon headshake levels are ridiculously high. I feel like on pulling the trigger, Mike Tyson has suddenly decided to do that funny speed boxing bag exercise with my head - totally kills the immersion.

[IvanK]

Having fired both the M61 in the F18 and 2 x DEFA in the Mirage III, and 2 x 7.62 mini Gun on the MB326. I agree with the above post. In the case of the M61 it feels like a fine but noisy Bzzzzz but no head shake whatsoever occurs. In the case of the DEFA (2 x 30mm) its a very rapid pulse (more like a rapid succession of burps) like feeling but again no head shake. Vibration was transferred to the airframe. This could be seen if the gunsight camera mount was tensioned incorrectly. This would result in jittery camera images the next morning when reviewing the cine (A fighter pilot ritual), but to the pilot at the time of firing ... nothing was noticed. Though in all these cases the firing aircraft were a lot heavier and more "densly" constructed compared the the average WWII fighter.

The same goes for general head motion in manoeuvring flight, the pilot compensates posture an eyeball wise the net result is no real issue to maintain a constant sight line. You don't get the "sinking into the pit feeling" you see with track IR at the moment. You know the G is coming on and you compensate for it. In fact body posture control in a fight is an important aspect of fighter flying.

[ElAurens]

Thank both of you for your real world expertise.

Of course you must realize that on this forum the majority of gamers that haunt the place will discount any real world pilot accounts, because harder just has to be more real...

[pupo162]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

Thank both of you for your real world expertise.

Of course you must realize that on this forum the majority of gamers that haunt the place will discount any real world pilot accounts, because harder just has to be more real...

is this the new trend?? i mean c, you are taking it over the top and acting as youtube-people, who use the same comment and joke over nad over againfor about every video no matter its thematic.

headshake never caused me any confusion, but has it is now its unixistent, it may be overdone in realism, but its good and valid indicator of how much g's you are pulling, since in real life you can feel them and you cant here.

[DB605]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

Thank both of you for your real world expertise.

Of course you must realize that on this forum the majority of gamers that haunt the place will discount any real world pilot accounts, because harder just has to be more real...

I don't mean to be asshole but real world experiences doesn't really mean much if they comes planes like Cessna or F-18. Both are equally (very very) far from planes like Spit or Bf-109. I am also quite sure WW2 aircraft cannons had way more recoil than modern guns. Of course Luthier could remove or turn down all effects but then we also lose immersion (or what is left of it anyways). I rather take 90% realism/10% immersion than absolute realism on all things...