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#2
06-03-2011, 08:32 PM
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Yes im these guy from UP which made some FM's for it.
I dont want to attack anybody here. Maby i was wrong understanded. Just i want to say that such "calculations" from different reasons dont work for these planes comparing to RL data. These is the same like i said about 2 different aero engineers who got way different results for the same thing. Regarding our game it could be also that flight model maker cant or dont know how to get wanted resuts. From my experience sometimes is really hard to do some things in il2 engine and soetimes it is needed to make it different way. Whathever reason in my humble opinion flight models in HSFX in many cases ( in some important planes) really doesn't work like it supposed to be and are way different from real life results. Just all. Last edited by Kwiatek; 06-03-2011 at 08:35 PM. 
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#3
06-03-2011, 09:34 PM
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I dont want to go in the telenovela of "your data are wrong", i have read too much posts and i know is an infinite debate.
Maybe you are using different data, so if your FM check your data i'm happy for you, maybe Aachen is happy because his FM check his data too ..... people can decide by himself. What i know is that Aachen its an aeronautical engineer that work in the aeronautical industry and a second WW ac passionate and a lot of people are loving his work. I'm sure a lot of people are loving your FM, there is no reason to go in a "my data are better than yours" war, especially in a forum where the second guy involved (Aachen) is not present.
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#4
06-03-2011, 10:34 PM
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Well there are not " my data" but just official data from these times used by Germans, British or Amercians for their planes. I mostly try and got if it is possible such official data not books, monographs etc. But if some planes in IL2 mods have obviously way too good or way too worse performacne comparing to even offical data from their country flight test there is really something off. But as you said i also dont want to start another telenovela "which data or mod is better" here, it is not point do to it.
Last edited by Kwiatek; 06-03-2011 at 11:08 PM.
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#5
06-04-2011, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
This is very true at least.
__________________
 ---------------------------------------------- For bugreports, help and support contact: daidalos.team@googlemail.com For modelers - The IL-2 standard modeling specifications: IL-Modeling Bible
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#6
06-04-2011, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Comparing theorical calculations with practical result is one of the most important thing for an AC builder, this is why there is windtunnel and test pilot. Do you really think he did calculations and stop? Without checking in game result? We ALL know that game engine has limit, Aachen too, so there must be a reason for the difference you have found, otherwise he dont know how to read RL test data and i will be worried next time i need to fly on an airliner. And why they have added the ac compare to HFSX, for let you see how wrong was the new FM? I'm an "old" WWII sim player (CFS1) and i'm in the "modding" since CFS3, unfortunately looks like the ultimate RL data does not exist and during the last ten years I have never seen a thread about FM and RL data finished well. Keep 10 FM expert toghever and you will obtain 10 different FM, no way to see them happy toghever ....  This is why I see your post a bit unfair, you are an expert and we, ordinary people, must have faith in what you say because we have no way to check, then you should make similar claims with who can argue, Aachen in this case, not in a thread that in most cases will be read by those who have never even seen the data for discussion, and for sure not in a thread starting with "pack vs pack" where NO ONE of both modpack was involved. I can understand a reaction to Ace's post, but he is not Aachen, Charlie or any other HFSX developer. Dont forget, SEOW user are in most case experienced and competitive players and WWII lovers, be sure they are not a polite users, if they think there is a problem with the FM of the ac they are flying in the tournment they can give you a good headeche ...  And i suspect there must be something right if most of the best organized groups use only HFSX for their groups activity and on line campaign. Anyway i want to close the question, there are two modpack around, they have different FM and apparently they are both appreciated by a lot of people. With HFSX you can disable the "new FM" with expert mode, in UP i suppose there are different slot (not sure, maybe i'm wrong), so the end user has the choice from 3 different FM, he will decide wich one check his expectations, and in most cases is better than having only the stock one. Last edited by Aracno; 06-04-2011 at 10:30 AM. Reason: wrong spelling
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#7
06-04-2011, 12:27 PM
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Aracno,
We know how biased you are, and what your intentions are so please don't pretent to be a "saint". We are aware... Anyway...to me all this "politics" for a game is ridiculous, too bad its like this, seriously. Kwiatek is regarded as the most talented and accurate FM "builder" in the IL2 addons community. His work is regarded as top. Its not questionable as he has proven this for years. Aachen perhaps has a Phd, perhaps is an aircraft engineer and also knows his stuff, this is also unquestionable. But despite how much "theory" you know, some (or most of) the times you cannot beat experience and historical accuracy. I am not questioning that Aachen's FMs are that bad, certainly they are better than your previous ones where an A-20B could turn like a Zero. But as we can see Aachens FMs are also not perfect and can improve a lot in the future. 17 Seconds turn-time for a Bf-109E: http://www.242sqn.com/phpBB2/viewtop...8e71b1d1cd21f8 Last the FMs debate cannot lead to a conclusion because of egoism and bias Everybody thinks that their FMs are the best, most accurate, etc and they don't change opinion even when they are confronted with facts. And everyone with half a brain knows who are these people. The only thing that can be counted is the acceptance they have in the community, and Kwiatek has proved this through years. Its a long way but if someone has to convince the rest about the "historical accuracy" of the FM he uses or created, this is the only and long road. Perhaps this post is also unnecessary because of the reasons i mentioned above. That, in the end, here at the "yellow-forum", certain people/fanboys believe what they Want to believe, no matter what. Its the outside" world of HL that matters most, to me at least. Cheers  EDIT: And a small detail. Kwiatek is not the only one that makes FMs for UP. He has made the most but not all. Last edited by I/ZG52_HaDeS; 06-04-2011 at 01:22 PM.
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#8
06-04-2011, 01:28 PM
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I'm not trying to be a saint, I'm trying to be civil.
For sure you are not on the top of my sympathy but I have nothing against the modders that released the mod in your pack. So I have nothing against Kwiatek, except about the opportunity of his post in this thread. So, please, dont try to keep me in your personal war.
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#9
06-04-2011, 01:48 PM
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Cheers
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#10
06-05-2011, 12:23 AM
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Well IMO as real WW2 aircraft pilot
 .. i can tell you to get the UP version of IL2.
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