Spit1a > SpitII

[Kwiatek]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Osprey,

Side note, I don't know where it states in the German reference that the Spit was on 87 octane, surely the Germans had it available, just not in quantity. At this point of the war, weren't the Germans still importing fuel from Russia, and using stocks captures from France (i.e. French and British fuels)?

There is no reference about which octan fuel was used. But there is reference that both Spit and Hurrciane had 2 stage prop pitch.

Looking at speed comparision between Rechlin tested Spitfire, Hurricane and 109 E it is clearly too me that British fighters were used only 87 octan fuel.

" Speed: the Spitfire is at 0 m by ca. 20 km/h, at 4 km by ca. 10 km/h, Hurricane and
Curtiss at 0 and 4 km altitude by ca. 60 km/h. A similar superiority of the Bf 109 E
exists in the climb performance as well."

So in Rechlin test 109 E at sea level was faster by 20 km/h from SPit and 60 km/h from Hurrciane.

100 Octan fuel Spitfie MK1 ( +12 lbs) was faster then 109 E at low to medium alts and Hurriciane ( +12 lbs) should be slowier about 20-30 km/h then 109 ( at low alts)

It is clearly to me that British fighters in Rechlin used only lower 87 octan fuel.

RL Data Speed for comparsion between Sptfire MK1 +6 1/2 lbs (blue line) - Spit MK1 +12 lbs ( red) - Hurricane MK1 +12 lbs ( green) - 109 E-3 1.45 Ata ( black - based on German manual)



500 km/h at sea level is the best speed score for 109 E-3 as i saw in RL data ( it is from german manual for E-3 ) but most common known speed score is 467 km/h at 1.3 Ata ( 5 Minute Emergency Power). For SPitfire MK1 at + 6 1/2 lbs (87 octan fuel) is ab. 450 km/h ( 280 mph) and for Hurricane MK1 at 6 1/2 lbs ( 87 octan fuel) is ab. 426 km/h ( 265 mph).



And disscussion about how many squadrons used 100 Octan fuel during BOB is pointless to me. WE know that many squadron used 100 Octan fuel during BOB expecially these most importants sectors squadrons. So both version were used during BOB.

So to be fair we should have 2 or 3 version of Spitfire MK1 and Hurricane MK1 - with 2 stage prop pitch and 6 1/2lbs (pre BOB version without pilot armour and armoured windshield), 2 stage prop pitch at 12 lbs (early BOB version) and CS propeller at 12 lbs.

[Kongo-Otto]

100 octane fuel used during the BOB?
Ah yes, i did read about that at an other forum, very interesting read indeed.

[winny]

I've seen this line on a website for Trimpel Oil refinery

By May 1940, reconnaissance Spitfires had begun flying combat missions using the 100 octane fuel. By 31 July 1940, there were 384 Spitfires serving in 19 squadrons using the 100 octane fuel.

There's no reference to where they got the 384 in 19 squadrons from.

[Danelov]

This one is really great and very well done:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsgEiJoBxX0

[Ze-Jamz]

Originally Posted by Danelov

This one is really great and very well done:

Superb detail..

They say that this has the 87Octane fuel in yet isnt that a Mk4 or 5 shown in the external view? Im sure it has Hispanos

[winny]

Originally Posted by Ze-Jamz

Superb detail..

They say that this has the 87Octane fuel in yet isnt that a Mk4 or 5 shown in the external view? Im sure it has Hispanos

Which bit of the vid? Looks like a Mk1 to me.

[Ze-Jamz]

Originally Posted by winny

Which bit of the vid? Looks like a Mk1 to me.

Look towards the end when its in an external view..

Mk1's didnt have cannons

[lane]

Originally Posted by winny

I've seen this line on a website for Trimpel Oil refinery

By May 1940, reconnaissance Spitfires had begun flying combat missions using the 100 octane fuel. By 31 July 1940, there were 384 Spitfires serving in 19 squadrons using the 100 octane fuel.

There's no reference to where they got the 384 in 19 squadrons from.

Interesting link winny, thanks for sharing! Just as significant as the passage you quoted is this one in my opinion:

"Bulk supply contracts for higher octane fuel were placed by the Air Ministry and it was put into widespread use in the RAF in March 1940 when Spitfires' Rolls Royce Merlin engines were converted to use the 100 octane fuel."

This seems in agreement with other published sources, such as the one below from A. R. Ogston, although your earlier posting did show units converting in February 1940.

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by winny

I've seen this line on a website for Trimpel Oil refinery

By May 1940, reconnaissance Spitfires had begun flying combat missions using the 100 octane fuel. By 31 July 1940, there were 384 Spitfires serving in 19 squadrons using the 100 octane fuel.

Interesting page on Heysham, thanks for sharing.

There's no reference to where they got the 384 in 19 squadrons from.

I would say its simple guesswork that it was used in all aircraft.

The funny thing you see is, with all the years and fantatic research, the fanatics of the cause could not produce but ONE paper stating even remotely saying such.

Its funny, compared to how allegedly 'uniform' its use was, that there's no single paper of it. Instead, the propagators just get wildly excited and hysterical, as usual, trying to make up with noise for something they cannot make up with substance.

It all reminds me of the old, now debunked claims by the same bunch of people at the ex-Spitfireperformance.com website. That time it was claimed 150 grade was a de facto standard fuel for Spitfire in 1944, and every Spitfire run just on that an nothing else. They even went as far as showing cropped original documents mentioning +25 lbs boosted Griffons, for example. "Only" the part of the paper that said that the engine failed almost immidiately was cut off... its funnily analouge to the current situation, because we have again cropped documents, oddly enough just forgetting about the period (May-September) in which Lord Beaverbrook noted that the conversion of the force halted.

Probably the simplest for would be get a full copy of AVIA 10/282 from Kew, as it would put all doubts to rest I believe.

[winny]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

Interesting page on Heysham, thanks for sharing.



I would say its simple guesswork that it was used in all aircraft.


Probably the simplest for would be get a full copy of AVIA 10/282 from Kew, as it would put all doubts to rest I believe.

Like I said earlier, I'm not biased, I just like a good discussion and I like to come at things from a slightly different angle..

What is AVIA 10/282? I'd love to spend a day in the archives..