Tracers too fast looking?

[Ze-Jamz]

Originally Posted by Lololopoulos

If flak smoke ball can stay for a couple of second, they can afford to make bullet hitting smoke to stay a bit longer too for better realism and immersion.

+1

Tracers in COD are a real issue...It has been a subject of " discussions" since the first videos were released....Considering the level of detail and realism of the cockpits, propellers , gauges, and shadows, when you finally shoot at something and you see those white straight large sticks pooring out of your wings...well, it is very disturbing...I have never seen one "real" exemple that shows anything close to we we have now in COD regarding tracers....Still hoping...

SAlute !

[DK-nme]

Originally Posted by kalimba

Tracers in COD are a real issue...It has been a subject of " discussions" since the first videos were released....Considering the level of detail and realism of the cockpits, propellers , gauges, and shadows, when you finally shoot at something and you see those white straight large sticks pooring out of your wings...well, it is very disturbing...I have never seen one "real" exemple that shows anything close to we we have now in COD regarding tracers....Still hoping...

SAlute !

I know, that comparison between CloD and WoP offends alot of people in here and that this is almost enough to get banned for life - but hear this out.

I'm not saying, that CloD should copy elements from WoP, far from, but If you really like good looking tracers, then check out the lovely modelled tracers in WoP - they're looking awesome.

Already diving for cover...


Edit: and by the way, I hate the miserable gameplay, the green mist (sounds like a horrormovie), the handling of AC's and the arcade mode of damage modelling in WoP.

[Blackdog_kt]

For the umpteenth time:

If people want movie-like tracers with camera artifacts like wobble included there's nothing wrong with it and i'm sure there will be mods for that in a little while.

The stock tracers however should stick to how the human eye sees them and in that regard CoD's tracers are not perfect, but they are almost perfect. The only problem is that they are a bit too thick when they are close to you, nothing else.

I don't want to force everyone to play a game the way i like it and i don't want others to do the same to me. Stock tracers should be looking the real deal, modded tracers can be completely custom, everyone is happy in the long run.

I just don't want to have to suffer hollywood tracers in a sim that's made so much effort to display things they way the eye seems them, because it would mess with the consistency of the whole visual package. Hollywood tracers are perfect for WoP because it goes for the vignette, "band of brothers" style image: the whole package is consistent in what it tries to do.

CoD tries to do something else and completely do away with camera artifacts, so a single element displaying those would mess up the rest of the package through inconsistency.

I've been a flak gunner in the local airforce, fired 20mm cannons, G3 assault rifles and even .303 rounds (there's a few thousand of WWII Bren machine guns in brand spanking new condition in inventory) and CoD's tracers are much closer to what i saw on the range under all kinds of light conditions than anything else in any other prop sim thus far.

That doesn't mean you should like them, it just means it's realistic. If people want the hollywood effect they have the choice to mod their game and that's fine by me. I just don't want it to be forced on me, because after my time as a conscript it just looks completely fake and out of place with how the rest of the effects are done (shadows, lighting and so on) and this would detract from immersion.

I'm not saying WoP is not pretty to look at because it is, RoF is also very nice looking. They are just going for a different aesthetic approach than the one CoD is trying for, so i think their effects are out of place for CoD: it's like messing up your colour palette with colours from another one.
It would be the same as taking WoP or RoF and implementing a visual element from CoD, it would stick out like a sore thumb because it would be done with a totally different aesthetic approach than everything else.

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

For the umpteenth time:

If people want movie-like tracers with camera artifacts like wobble included there's nothing wrong with it and i'm sure there will be mods for that in a little while.

The stock tracers however should stick to how the human eye sees them and in that regard CoD's tracers are not perfect, but they are almost perfect. The only problem is that they are a bit too thick when they are close to you, nothing else.

I don't want to force everyone to play a game the way i like it and i don't want others to do the same to me. Stock tracers should be looking the real deal, modded tracers can be completely custom, everyone is happy in the long run.

I just don't want to have to suffer hollywood tracers in a sim that's made so much effort to display things they way the eye seems them, because it would mess with the consistency of the whole visual package. Hollywood tracers are perfect for WoP because it goes for the vignette, "band of brothers" style image: the whole package is consistent in what it tries to do.

CoD tries to do something else and completely do away with camera artifacts, so a single element displaying those would mess up the rest of the package through inconsistency.

I've been a flak gunner in the local airforce, fired 20mm cannons, G3 assault rifles and even .303 rounds (there's a few thousand of WWII Bren machine guns in brand spanking new condition in inventory) and CoD's tracers are much closer to what i saw on the range under all kinds of light conditions than anything else in any other prop sim thus far.

That doesn't mean you should like them, it just means it's realistic. If people want the hollywood effect they have the choice to mod their game and that's fine by me. I just don't want it to be forced on me, because after my time as a conscript it just looks completely fake and out of place with how the rest of the effects are done (shadows, lighting and so on) and this would detract from immersion.

I'm not saying WoP is not pretty to look at because it is, RoF is also very nice looking. They are just going for a different aesthetic approach than the one CoD is trying for, so i think their effects are out of place for CoD: it's like messing up your colour palette with colours from another one.
It would be the same as taking WoP or RoF and implementing a visual element from CoD, it would stick out like a sore thumb because it would be done with a totally different aesthetic approach than everything else.

Hey Blackdog,

Back to tracers ?

You may be right , but until they modify what we have here, we won't know for sure that we can get the realistic feeling that goes along with all the rest of COD....Even the new propeller FX "feels" right...And it looks pretty much like what we see in videos...The challenge here is to be as close as possible to reality, and at the same time giving the impression of immersion, based on what we "feel" is accurate. I am not talking about woobling tracers, but as I said, for the rest, apart the woobling, I would like to see at least ONE guncam movie that shows something close to COD...My personnal guess ? It is still WIP, like many other things in that game...

Salute !

[609_Huetz]

Well, it's a bit harsh to say they are almost perfect and then say you served in the Air Defense. I did so too for years, any be assured, neither a .303 nor a 3,5 cm tracer will ever look like this.

It is a small dot of light flying away from you, nothing more. No lasers, depending on the round no smoke and definately not any shake,vibration or spin to it. A tracer round also does not have a ray of light sticking out it's back.

That's my issue with them: they are not only to thick but also way too long. I doubt the tracers 65 years ago looked that much different from what they do nowadays. Well, at least they got the colors right

*EDIT* This is by the way not meant as insult or a whinng post on what's wrong with CloD, however it's a sim, it should try to model reality as close as possible.

[DK-nme]

Originally Posted by 609_Huetz

(...) any be assured, neither a .303 nor a 3,5 cm tracer will ever look like this.

It is a small dot of light flying away from you, nothing more. No lasers, depending on the round no smoke and definately not any shake, vibration or spin to it. A tracer round also does not have a ray of light sticking out it's back.

That's my issue with them: they are not only to thick but also way too long.

Well spoken, especially the point with no ray of a real tracers.
Like the rest of the colorpalette in the surrounding gfx, the tracers in CloD seems flat - like only using 256 colors?

And what astonishes me is, that most people don't like special-effects, some utterly despice them, and this is certainly true in the matter of light reflexions in the prop disc. But when it comes to tracers, most gladely accept movieeffects that resembles lasers from the Deathstar (anno 1977).

A camera only shoots 24-25 frames/sec. and therefor a fast travelling bullet (tracer, that is) may seem to have a long ray in video replays.
So, from earlier reasoning and well accepted arguments: Special FX are to be left out of the game, cause they don't reflect reality.
If the former argument is valid, so should tracers (or atleast they should be changed in appearance)...

Originally Posted by DK-nme

Well spoken, especially the point with no ray of a real tracers.
Like the rest of the colorpalette in the surrounding gfx, the tracers in CloD seems flat - like only using 256 colors?

And what astonishes me is, that most people don't like special-effects, some utterly despice them, and this is certainly true in the matter of light reflexions in the prop disc. But when it comes to tracers, most gladely accept movieeffects that resembles lasers from the Deathstar (anno 1977).

A camera only shoots 24-25 frames/sec. and therefor a fast travelling bullet (tracer, that is) may seem to have a long ray in video replays.
So, from earlier reasoning and well accepted arguments: Special FX are to be left out of the game, cause they don't reflect reality.
If the former argument is valid, so should tracers (or atleast they should be changed in appearance)...

It s a complex situation...Since the brain is considering 24 fps enough not to perceive stuttering, it dosen't mean that human eye "image persistence" is the same as film behavior. A fast moving object is percieved as fluid movement by the brain on film at 24 fps because each frame as a "blurring" image of the object...The object is actualy deformed on each still frame and is looking elongated...thus creating an impression of continuity. Very bright light will "imprint" exagerated image compared to other objects. ...That is why it doesn't apply to video games, unless a " blurr" FX is applied.
As an exemple, a tracer filmed with high speed camera would look like a light bulb flying away...So we can't rely on film to compare with RL...
So the real tracers FX should be done in respect of eye "image persistence" , witch is like when you watch a bright moving spot at night creating a "light stream" for few seconds. If the tracers are very bright , they could make such an impression... or at night. 1C has to recreate an estimation of what would be seen by a pilot firing tracers without solely relying on guncams...
And my humble guess is that would be very different from what we have seen so far...except for the smoketrail part that "feels" ok...

SAlute !

[Dialn911]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

For the umpteenth time:

If people want movie-like tracers with camera artifacts like wobble included there's nothing wrong with it and i'm sure there will be mods for that in a little while.

The stock tracers however should stick to how the human eye sees them and in that regard CoD's tracers are not perfect, but they are almost perfect. The only problem is that they are a bit too thick when they are close to you, nothing else.

I don't want to force everyone to play a game the way i like it and i don't want others to do the same to me. Stock tracers should be looking the real deal, modded tracers can be completely custom, everyone is happy in the long run.

I just don't want to have to suffer hollywood tracers in a sim that's made so much effort to display things they way the eye seems them, because it would mess with the consistency of the whole visual package. Hollywood tracers are perfect for WoP because it goes for the vignette, "band of brothers" style image: the whole package is consistent in what it tries to do.

CoD tries to do something else and completely do away with camera artifacts, so a single element displaying those would mess up the rest of the package through inconsistency.

I've been a flak gunner in the local airforce, fired 20mm cannons, G3 assault rifles and even .303 rounds (there's a few thousand of WWII Bren machine guns in brand spanking new condition in inventory) and CoD's tracers are much closer to what i saw on the range under all kinds of light conditions than anything else in any other prop sim thus far.

That doesn't mean you should like them, it just means it's realistic. If people want the hollywood effect they have the choice to mod their game and that's fine by me. I just don't want it to be forced on me, because after my time as a conscript it just looks completely fake and out of place with how the rest of the effects are done (shadows, lighting and so on) and this would detract from immersion.

I'm not saying WoP is not pretty to look at because it is, RoF is also very nice looking. They are just going for a different aesthetic approach than the one CoD is trying for, so i think their effects are out of place for CoD: it's like messing up your colour palette with colours from another one.
It would be the same as taking WoP or RoF and implementing a visual element from CoD, it would stick out like a sore thumb because it would be done with a totally different aesthetic approach than everything else.

I have to agree with the lack of tracer quality on the game. I have seen tracers fired in real world settings, I have shot them myself watching them go out. My first impression with these in the game was WTF? They look cheap, lazy, and ridiculous. They leave too fast, and appear to move in a perfectly straight line outward. No convergence what soever of ballistic drop. I tried aiming high at a bomber to ark and compensate for bullet drop....no need, they flew straight like lasers. I simply has to point and fire. Firing weapons my whole life including machine guns, I was puzzled and confused by the lack of balletic physics that appear in COD. Also, the tracers leave and at about 100 yards out and magically vanish into nothing. I hate to say it, but this is a sad excuse for tracers and seriously makes the game look as if they put something in for a temporary marker while testing and forgot to fix it.


I know a lot of you on here think they supposedly look "authentic", but having fired automatic weapons with tracers.....um, no...they look like crap and sound like crap.

Before I hear a bunch of fan boys trying to chastise me, I have been playing sims for over 20 years and am an avid support of maddox. I own the complete Il-2 series and have loved them, this is why I showed my support and bough a 50 dollar game with a POOR 2.0 average rating from all the user and professional critic reviews and websites. I figured they will work all this out, but some stuff is really bad. You have to call a spade a spade.

When I buy a new Il-2 game, and I find myself booting up 1946 to play when I have COD staring me on the shelf....yeah they really screwed the pooch. Hyper lobby if full of Il-2 hardcore gamers loading up 1946 despite the fact COD is out. That says a lot right there.