Simulation or Shoot-em-up?

[robtek]

Yes Khamsin,
i also got the idea that he wanted to replay the movie
But then there should be HA112 and no Bf109 and there should be CASA 2-111 instead of HE111.
Oh, and od course all the Bf110 and Ju88A1 and Do-17 /215 are too much.
No stopping now, the tiger moth, the defiant, the blenheim, the Beaufighter and the Wellington have to go also.
So many resources wasted. sic!

[Heliocon]

Originally Posted by DogTailRed2

Many thanks to everyone for making this an interesting and lively thread.
My system is a reasonably decent set-up.

Quad core 2.33. 4 gb RAM. GTS 250 1gb RAM. 500gb RAID 0 striped discs for speed. Win 7 64bit.

While I appreciate that is not state of the art it should be able to cope with the basics the sim has to offer. My sliders are set at medium settings. If I go much lower then I just end up with IL2 in quality.

It's not just the FPS that is an issue for me. It's the feel of the sim. It just doesn't feel like i'm being immersed into a 1940 Battle of Britain environment. There are some really nice touches to the sim. The stream of oil from a bombers damaged engine. Impact hit flashes from cannon shells. The spiral trail of rounds. Actually hitting a 109 and seeing coolant from his rads.
What's missing is that scramble from a recognisable RAF BOB period airfield. Listening to the controller vectoring towards the bandits (which should be something like "Tophat Leader this is Pinetree control. I have some trade for you over Maidstone. 20+ bandits at Angels 15"). Not "Red 1 attacking bombers, attacking bombers, attacking bombers. I'm out of ammo!" (try 2 second bursts old AI chap).
There's not even any stirring music as you engage the enemy and those splash screens are decidedly eastern front in look and feel. What's with all the Panzers anyway. We weren't invaded and as for the Beaufighter, why?

When I fly FSX with the A2A Spitfire. 3 pumps on the primer. Firing the coffman starter and waiting for temps to rise, or checking the trolly acc is attached. Listening to the Merlin engine purring away. Pushing the throttle forward and hearing a Merlin growl. Opening the canopy, hearing the whistle as I crack it open, then the wind rushing around the canopy when I push it back. Looking down on an accurate depiction of England. Not needing maps as I can see landmarks and other features. Flying the circuit at Duxford. Hearing the steam vent popping because I overheated her again. Buzzing the tower at Alderney and hearing the gulls flying past. I feel immersion and I don't even have anything to shoot at.

When I fly COD over a stuttery unrecognisable sudo English landscape to do battle with a gaggle of, very nicely rendered, 6+ Stukas, in my Yak50 (well, that's what it sounds like and not very good at that). Opening the throttle wide and then wondering if i'm actually accelerating at all. Then having to wait for umpteen patches to get me to a level that probably still doesn't match the other sims out there. It grates when I've been told this will be the sim to end all sims. The new bench mark we have all been waiting for. 8 years. That's a lot of waiting.

Something else I would like to challenge is the concept that what will really make this sim a big hit are all the modders out there waiting to provide me with campaigns, fixes, patches and all the other stuff to fix the sim. I was expecting some of that to be included off the shelf. Anyway shouldn't the modders happen after a sim is released and has been played out. After all this sim isn't free-ware. If the community was needed to make this sim a hit then why didn't the programmers realise this, drop design of some of the content and focus on the environment. Give us a superb and brilliant framework to work with.

IL2 was a hit when I installed the demo. It was a hit when I bought the original, and the updates. Was an even bigger hit after all the fans produced updates to it. I just feel cod is design flawed. Has two many hang-ups from the original (menu system, simple formations, eastern block sounds) and two many missing elements from the original (lead in movies, music, playability).

To go back to my original premiss. That's why I see this as being just a game. A great game potentially with the ability for mass fur-balls on-line. A great game of mods and add-ons. But it's not going to be an accurate depiction of the Battle of Britain. No watching the fuel gauges for the 109's. No feeling of being outnumbered for the Spitfires. No scrambles or climb to battle and being bounced for the Hurri's. No late evening patrols in murky weather and trying to find base.

No Polish `flying circus` shouting "Repeat please" over the RT.

Regards,

Dog.

Your gpu is pathetic, your ram is borderline too - That setups is in the range of budget gaming machine, which use better gpus than yours.

[DogTailRed2]

Originally Posted by Heliocon

Your gpu is pathetic, your ram is borderline too - That setups is in the range of budget gaming machine, which use better gpus than yours.

It plays ROF and FSX (with lots of nice add-ons and enhancements) very well.

[Heliocon]

Originally Posted by DogTailRed2

It plays ROF and FSX (with lots of nice add-ons and enhancements) very well.

Sorry - my comment sounds alot ruder/dismissive then I wanted it to be (I was just being blunt). Remeber ROF is DX9 game and is very limited in its CPU core use as well as advanced lighting. Point is that gpu does not cut it anymore, despite it running ROF well, the reality is just that you need to upgrade to a more modern gpu even if its low range like a 460gtx.

[JG14_Jagr]

Originally Posted by DogTailRed2

I've been a fan of IL2 and waiting for this game for sooo long.
Being playing for about a month and I can't decide if COD is a genuine sim or a glorified Shoot-em-up.
To be a simulation you need to accurately depict the scenario, environment you are trying to model. I can't fly successfully over land due to FPS issues so I air-start over the channel. I'm in an aircraft that doesn't sound or fly like a front line fighter. I'm presented with radio chatter which sounds like a bad rap recording while I watch my AI steam into a bomber formation (with hyper-drive) and expend all their ammo in a single pass. I love the way 1-11's do snap wing overs when attacked. That's if they don't collide with their wingmen that is.
Then it's my turn to try and I find, due to control lag, I'm porpoising all over the sky and at the critical moment when I've actually got the hun in my sights I get the most almighty stutter and then he's gone.
So this is why, to me, COD is a Shoot-em-up because more and more I'm just setting up scenarios where I can fur-ball for a bit of fun rather than trying to immerse myself in an epic battle. In fact, sad though I say it, I'm flying COD less and less.
COD has no immersion or atmosphere. The Battle of Britain sim it aint.

Put your system Specs in your Signature under User CP.

I fly the Hurricane Bomber Intercept Mission quite a bit as a fps benchmark. When I first started using it I wcould not believe that all the AI was swooping in on the bombers and I was barely able to close on them..

Then I learned how touse CEM and properly adjust the PITCH on my Hurricane and now I get there first.. He111's are pretty damned maneuverable, I've not seen the snap roll..but I've seen a lot of avoidence measures and a fair number of collisions.. I lit up the cockpit of an He111 then the ghost plane flew into another He111..on replay the crew was dead.. I thought that was pretty cool..

Watch the BoB movie and watch the Hispano He111's when they maneuver...they are fairly sprightly.. remember they are similar to a B25 or B26 rather than a B17 or B24.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Jagr, the AI seems to have just the same AI routines as IL-2 had. The AI wobbles it's ailerons, rudder moving like a paddle, flap fighting, they suddenly just ignore you and fly straight, barrel roll evasions, outclimb tactics etc.

The bombers dogfight and collide like idiots. The power of their defence was a formation and they flew relatively steady. I can go fly in the middle of them without fear of getting even half seriously damaged. I flew under a bomber Do17Z at about 5m below the gunner and he MISSED! Shot his bullets to the sky as he tracked another plane, not mine.

The list of AI goes on. I just call it Appalling Idiocy as it is now. I like CoD, but as for now it is a test bed for patches. Not gonna go online before issues have been tackled. Remaining hopeful, but I think the US release will be the point where we can see what is gonna happen. A few weeks to go and really hope Luthier's gang will get it patched up before that.

[baronWastelan]

Here's what I posted on Amazon.com:

By twin_dragon

Fun:5.0 out of 5 stars

I have the Russian version since April 8, 2011. Currently I'm on patch 14413. I'm also a fan of FSX since Feb 2008. Today I started a flight in FSX, looked at the ground, the roads, the sea (DX10), and as good as it is after years of tuning and tweaking, I started to feel sick because of how fake it looks compared to Cliffs of Dover.

This new flight sim is in its infancy, and is barely half complete. But what you get cannot be beat in the realm of WWII flight sims. Yes there's Rise of Flight which is brilliant for the era it depicts, but it's like watching autocross (WWI) compared to the Le Mans 24 (WWII).

To put it bluntly, there's nothing else available in 2011 if you want an advanced complex simulator for WWII era combat. The details of the damage models are so elaborate, it will almost make your eyes water at the thought that so many little details can be updated in real-time. Sheet aluminum, torn and deformed by shells and bullets, will cast shadows, and holes reveal all the components inside: oxygen tanks, engines, oil tanks, frame, etc. Your engine must be operated within published limits at all times, or there will be consequences. Gone are the days when you get an "overheat" message pop up, which lets you know to open your radiator, so your engine instantly cools and is like brand new. You need to continuously monitor all the gauges, especially in the British aircraft. The engine model is so precise, you can cook one exhaust valve from running boost too high for a minute, and see a difference in the color of the exhaust flames in one bank of cylinders as a result! The details of the clickable cockpits are already well known, and they are truly photo-realistic down to control rods and chains that rotate when controls are operated.

There are new mission features that are only just beginning to be explored. The Full Mission Builder (FMB) works nearly identically to the FMB in modded Il-2 1946. It is extremely easy to set up attack waypoints, for example.

In conclusion, if you're interested in a game that you can jump into and play for 8 - 10 hours, then toss aside and forget, then Cliffs of Dover is not for you. If you want the most detailed flight simulator of WWII era aircraft on earth, with many years of unlimited experiences ahead, then you should not miss out on Cliffs of Dover.

http://www.amazon.com/2-Sturmovik-Cl...4807149&sr=1-1

[JG14_Jagr]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

The bombers dogfight and collide like idiots. The power of their defence was a formation and they flew relatively steady. I can go fly in the middle of them without fear of getting even half seriously damaged.

The LW bombers were armed with rifle caliber low cyclic rate MG's with small magazines.. in the words of several JU88 pilots they gave them the guns more for morale than for effect.. The B17's and the USAF worked on boxed formations with overlapping fields of fire.. the LW bombers main defense was designed to be SPEED. 111's of 88's under attack were not going to fly level..they didnt have the defensive firepower to prevent a guy from camping on their tail and ripping them apart..

[ChocsAway]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

S!

Jagr, the AI seems to have just the same AI routines as IL-2 had. The AI wobbles it's ailerons, rudder moving like a paddle, flap fighting, they suddenly just ignore you and fly straight, barrel roll evasions, outclimb tactics etc.

The bombers dogfight and collide like idiots. The power of their defence was a formation and they flew relatively steady. I can go fly in the middle of them without fear of getting even half seriously damaged. I flew under a bomber Do17Z at about 5m below the gunner and he MISSED! Shot his bullets to the sky as he tracked another plane, not mine.

The list of AI goes on. I just call it Appalling Idiocy as it is now. I like CoD, but as for now it is a test bed for patches. Not gonna go online before issues have been tackled. Remaining hopeful, but I think the US release will be the point where we can see what is gonna happen. A few weeks to go and really hope Luthier's gang will get it patched up before that.

Totally agree with you here. The AI is nothing short of a joke and the biggest immersion killer IMO. ME109s rolling faster than an F16. Friendly AI queing up and stealing kills. Enemy planes not bothering to evade when you pump bursts of fire into them repeatedly plus all of the above.

My biggest concern is that as others have mentioned, and that is that Clod will be abandoned by the devs once the USA version has been released. It needs a lot of work and some pretty huge patches to make the sim playable and more immersive. I hope we get that as there's lots to like about Clod already and I've spent many hours on it even in the broken state it is clearly in, but with so much potential it would be a real shame to see it fail.

[Zoom2136]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

The bombers dogfight and collide like idiots. The power of their defence was a formation and they flew relatively steady. I can go fly in the middle of them without fear of getting even half seriously damaged. I flew under a bomber Do17Z at about 5m below the gunner and he MISSED! Shot his bullets to the sky as he tracked another plane, not mine.

Well I guess it's an improvement over the original iL2 where bomber could snipe you arrss from 1k true 4 layers of clouds...

BTW, you may have been lucky than that gunner got tunnel vison...