I don't envy luthier...

[GOA_Potenz]

Yup that's the point after 7 years of development, how they could release a product in this state??? Plus the cheat they used to record videos, and make us belive that the game
was running perfect. IMO the frustration showed by the community is exactly that, we've been wainting 7 years for this sim to be out after all that expectation, watching screens and videos for so many years, finally you bought the game, install it, and then you realize that after all that time and money spent on harware, performance is crap, so many bugs, glitches etc, FM/DM problems, then 1 patch, 2nd patch and the game isn't even close to what you saw on devs screens and videos. That will make a whole community to explode in anger.

[617Squadron]

Originally Posted by GOA_Potenz

Yup that's the point after 7 years of development, how they could release a product in this state??? Plus the cheat they used to record videos, and make us belive that the game
was running perfect. IMO the frustration showed by the community is exactly that, we've been wainting 7 years for this sim to be out after all that expectation, watching screens and videos for so many years, finally you bought the game, install it, and then you realize that after all that time and money spent on harware, performance is crap, so many bugs, glitches etc, FM/DM problems, then 1 patch, 2nd patch and the game isn't even close to what you saw on devs screens and videos. That will make a whole community to explode in anger.

So, how many versions of Windows were released in a similar condition? Even the best software developers are fallible; Windows ME and Vista are very good examples of their versions of 'Betaware' and are testament to the best being human. People paid good money to Microsoft for those too (and more money than you paid for COD, incidentally). I just feel that people need to get some perspective here.

@ Gerfaut

Nobody's stopping you from helping Luthier out here (and that goes for all of you other people queueing up to take a pop at him when is doing his best to make a bad situation good). If we could replace criticism and trolling with talent and help he'd get things finished so much quicker.

I can't believe the number of software 'experts' there are in here...... although I've yet to see code snippet suggestions to Luthier in threads, instead of script edits.... I freely admit I am no games coder but I sense a witchhunt is in progress and that ultimately, Luthier and Co. could be on a hiding to nothing....

[Blackdog_kt]

I think there's just too much panic for no reason. The team got some sales in EU, Aus and Russia to keep paying their bills while they work on the bugs, they'll use that time to get it to an adequate standard for the US release and that's all there is to it.

On top of that, we have a good starting package with a bit of everything thrown in and a few tools to create extra content ourselves (more than a few but not all work or are properly documented yet), a good amount of flyables and AI units and none of the "pay-per-plane" hassle that another recent sim had to use to fund itself through its own initially troublesome launch. Other titles have had an equally rocky start or had it even worse than CoD, starting out with similar optimization troubles, having a much lower amount of content and being more expensive to own and improve and guess what, they are doing just fine now, so what's all the panic about?


Anyone with half a brain that's been following these boards knew that the game would be incomplete upon release, the massive scope of all the new features coupled with the small staff and budget would guarantee a lot of bug-hunting and so on, so if people knew all that and still went out and bought it with the aim of simply having something to complain about its incomplete state, well they only have themselves to blame.

Doubly so if they were among the people who were constantly demanding a release date and just bought it out of impatience, so that they can be even more impatient for the bugs to get fixed, this actually borders on masochism

I'm not denying the game's issues but neither am i denying the fact that they are working on improving it. We'll probably have a fully working product in 6 months or so either way, the way i see it is that i pre-ordered and got access to the open beta as a bonus.
In fact, that's the only mistake they did with this launch. They should have labeled it an open beta and give access to people who pre-order and deposit a token amount as down-payment, something similar to what DCS:A-10 did. Not only would nobody complain in that case, the exact opposite in fact: everyone would be rushing to pre-order and put down $10 for their copy in advance, just to get in on the beta. That's the gamer mentality, tell him he's somehow special and bugs won't bother him one bit as long as he knows he's elevated to the revered status of beta-tester.

So what happens from now on? Well, whether you choose to fly it in its current state, shelve it for a few months or not even buy it and wait until it gets fixed, they are all valid choices and nobody's going to call foul on that.

What i don't get is people who demanded the moon and stars in terms of features while at the same time complaining about the release delays and now state that "it should have been delayed for 6 months", when there's already been 2-3 cases of renewed outrage for the US release being pushed back. Now this is the point where i start laughing because the inconsistency is reaching comedy levels.


This is not aimed towards anyone in particular, i don't keep tabs, i don't take down names, i don't need to defend the sim as long as i'm having fun with it, everyone is free to have their opinion and even change it as time goes by.

All i'm saying is that if i don't just change my opinion on what should be done or should have been done with the game/sim every few weeks but go from one extreme to the completely opposite one, then nobody in their right mind will take me seriously after a while and with good reason.

I mean, let's just all have some consistency and common sense for a change

[617Squadron]

What i don't get is people who demanded the moon and stars in terms of features while at the same time complaining about the release delays and now state that "it should have been delayed for 6 months", when there's already been 2-3 cases of renewed outrage for the US release being pushed back. Now this is the point where i start laughing because the inconsistency is reaching comedy levels.

Trolls have no sense of reasoning or logic; maybe that's where you are going wrong....

I agree with your comments entirely though - some people on here need a life transplant urgently.....

[Rattlehead]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

In fact, that's the only mistake they did with this launch. They should have labeled it an open beta and give access to people who pre-order and deposit a token amount as down-payment, something similar to what DCS:A-10 did. Not only would nobody complain in that case, the exact opposite in fact: everyone would be rushing to pre-order and put down $10 for their copy in advance, just to get in on the beta. That's the gamer mentality, tell him he's somehow special and bugs won't bother him one bit as long as he knows he's elevated to the revered status of beta-tester.

So what happens from now on? Well, whether you choose to fly it in its current state, shelve it for a few months or not even buy it and wait until it gets fixed, they are all valid choices and nobody's going to call foul on that.

What i don't get is people who demanded the moon and stars in terms of features while at the same time complaining about the release delays and now state that "it should have been delayed for 6 months", when there's already been 2-3 cases of renewed outrage for the US release being pushed back. Now this is the point where i start laughing because the inconsistency is reaching comedy levels.

Fantastic post.

[mazex]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

I think there's just too much panic for no reason. The team got some sales in EU, Aus and Russia to keep paying their bills while they work on the bugs, they'll use that time to get it to an adequate standard for the US release and that's all there is to it.

On top of that, we have a good starting package with a bit of everything thrown in and a few tools to create extra content ourselves (more than a few but not all work or are properly documented yet), a good amount of flyables and AI units and none of the "pay-per-plane" hassle that another recent sim had to use to fund itself through its own initially troublesome launch. Other titles have had an equally rocky start or had it even worse than CoD, starting out with similar optimization troubles, having a much lower amount of content and being more expensive to own and improve and guess what, they are doing just fine now, so what's all the panic about?


Anyone with half a brain that's been following these boards knew that the game would be incomplete upon release, the massive scope of all the new features coupled with the small staff and budget would guarantee a lot of bug-hunting and so on, so if people knew all that and still went out and bought it with the aim of simply having something to complain about its incomplete state, well they only have themselves to blame.

Doubly so if they were among the people who were constantly demanding a release date and just bought it out of impatience, so that they can be even more impatient for the bugs to get fixed, this actually borders on masochism

I'm not denying the game's issues but neither am i denying the fact that they are working on improving it. We'll probably have a fully working product in 6 months or so either way, the way i see it is that i pre-ordered and got access to the open beta as a bonus.
In fact, that's the only mistake they did with this launch. They should have labeled it an open beta and give access to people who pre-order and deposit a token amount as down-payment, something similar to what DCS:A-10 did. Not only would nobody complain in that case, the exact opposite in fact: everyone would be rushing to pre-order and put down $10 for their copy in advance, just to get in on the beta. That's the gamer mentality, tell him he's somehow special and bugs won't bother him one bit as long as he knows he's elevated to the revered status of beta-tester.

So what happens from now on? Well, whether you choose to fly it in its current state, shelve it for a few months or not even buy it and wait until it gets fixed, they are all valid choices and nobody's going to call foul on that.

What i don't get is people who demanded the moon and stars in terms of features while at the same time complaining about the release delays and now state that "it should have been delayed for 6 months", when there's already been 2-3 cases of renewed outrage for the US release being pushed back. Now this is the point where i start laughing because the inconsistency is reaching comedy levels.


This is not aimed towards anyone in particular, i don't keep tabs, i don't take down names, i don't need to defend the sim as long as i'm having fun with it, everyone is free to have their opinion and even change it as time goes by.

All i'm saying is that if i don't just change my opinion on what should be done or should have been done with the game/sim every few weeks but go from one extreme to the completely opposite one, then nobody in their right mind will take me seriously after a while and with good reason.

I mean, let's just all have some consistency and common sense for a change

+1

Best post I've read here for months...

[airmalik]

An insightful and well reasoned post Blackdog. A rarity on these boards.

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

In fact, that's the only mistake they did with this launch. They should have labeled it an open beta and give access to people who pre-order and deposit a token amount as down-payment, something similar to what DCS:A-10 did.

My thoughts as well but I think DCS were able to do this because they publish the game themselves. I doubt UBI would be interested in this early access/downpayment deal.

Despite all the initial problems, I'm glad that this sim was pushed out the door when it was. You've GOT to just ship sometimes. The pursuit of perfection in a sim with as ambitious a scope as COD's would take forever otherwise. With the sim in the market the dev team is definitely better focused on the critical stuff. There's plenty of time to polish other aspects of the sim during it's hopefully long lifespan.

Disclosure - I've purchased the game on Steam but haven't installed it yet. Only have a MBpro at the moment and am holding out until the performance issues are sorted out before I put together a purpose built rig for COD.

[Redroach]

yeah, this is the assumption I'm making, too. CoD seems to be developed just to the point where you can make pretty advertising videos. Then, they called it a day and released it, with 3/4 of the features not even implemented, I fear. And performance optimization seemed to have been skipped totally, too.

It's like making a sportscar prototype. It looks fast, it does 330 km/h on a straight-line test track (though the engine sounds a bit flat ). Okay, cool, you put it up for sale and the buyer has to find out that it can't get around corners, rear mirrors have been left out, you have to sit on a wooden box - and it consumes 5litres per km....

P.S.: The fact that they release patches now (as said, beta or not) that do AGAIN provide nothing more than new menu points without functionality is almost an insult to me...

[617Squadron]

Originally Posted by Redroach

yeah, this is the assumption I'm making, too. CoD seems to be developed just to the point where you can make pretty advertising videos. Then, they called it a day and released it, with 3/4 of the features not even implemented, I fear. And performance optimization seemed to have been skipped totally, too.

It's like making a sportscar prototype. It looks fast, it does 330 km/h on a straight-line test track (though the engine sounds a bit flat ). Okay, cool, you put it up for sale and the buyer has to find out that it can't get around corners, rear mirrors have been left out, you have to sit on a wooden box - and it consumes 5litres per km....

P.S.: The fact that they release patches now (as said, beta or not) that do AGAIN provide nothing more than new menu points without functionality is almost an insult to me...

Everything you have said there could equally apply to Microsoft.... in fact, there was quite a famous quote about cars and software, as below:-

At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated, "If GM had kept up with the technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon."

In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating, "If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:

1.For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.
2.Every time they painted new lines on the road, you would have to buy a new car.
3.Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull over to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.
4.Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.
5.Only one person at a time could use the car unless you bought "CarNT," but then you would have to buy more seats.
6.Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive -- but it would only run on five percent of the roads.
7.The oil, water temperature and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "general protection fault" warning light.
8.The airbag system would ask, "Are you sure?" before deploying.
9.Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the antenna.
10.GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of Rand McNally Road maps (now a GM subsidiary), even though they neither need nor want them. Attempting to delete this option would immediately cause the car's performance to diminish by 50 percent or more. Moreover, GM would become a target for investigation by the Justice Department.
11.Every time GM introduced a new car, car buyers would have to learn to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.
12.You'd have to press the "start" button to turn the engine off".

That says it all.....

[Redroach]

Originally Posted by 617Squadron

Everything you have said there could equally apply to Microsoft.... in fact, there was quite a famous quote about cars and software, as below:

Right here, right now, I'm using Linux, FYI. I play my games on a windows partition on another PC.
That said, Windows was always a step ahead in terms of user-friendliness, while keeping its flaws at least down on a reasonable level. CoD is just unusable, at least for my purposes.
And... 2x bad doesn't make it good, does it?