BF109 - Can't we just have the gunsight in the middle?

[ATAG_Bliss]

Lixma,

We don't use 2 eyes in this sim. We are playing in a 2d world here. We have one POV to look upon and until technology has changed, this is what the limits of COD will be.

So you are basically a cyclops in the game, but my point in all of this is the point of reference you are looking at "in-game" would be one eye, directly in the center of the pit.

This video (remember a camera only has one eye) shows exactly what I'm talking about with regards to the current limitations present with simulating something via a 2d image.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blem3...layer_embedded

Notice how the sight goes out of view depending on where your one eye is looking. That's how it's modelled in the game. Because in the game we can only have one eye. The last thing I would want to see on my screen is a recticle covering 1/2 the revi and 1/2 into space. When technology is out to simulate true 3d in the game, I'd wager that the sight would show up just as it was in RL. But it's not going to until that time.

[Wolf_Rider]

so the work around is setting the view to a key... just like there isn't a real work around for the "flying by the seat" or a feeling of weight

I don't understand your logic, Bliss. As we never will really feel real g-loads ourselves should this not be simulated as closely as now? Why do you have headshake and g-loads activated on Syndicate server? This also never ever can be correctly represented on a computer screen as it cannot influence on how you yourself feel the forces when sitting in front of your computer. Same goes for black and red outs.

I say let's make it as close as reality within the possibilities. If in real life we have binocular vision the representation ingame should be as close as possible with a 2d graphics. And be it a aim circle wobbling before the background and not restricted to the reflector sight glas.

[Lixma]

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss

Lixma,

We don't use 2 eyes in this sim. We are playing in a 2d world here. We have one POV to look upon and until technology has changed, this is what the limits of COD will be.

So you are basically a cyclops in the game, but my point in all of this is the point of reference you are looking at "in-game" would be one eye, directly in the center of the pit.

Bliss, with respect....you are repeating everything i've tried to explain throughout the thread. Just do a search for 'Cyclops'. I even made this for example....



I must ask you to have a read through my previous posts, i've been there and got the T-shirt.

The last thing I would want to see on my screen is a recticle covering 1/2 the revi and 1/2 into space.

This is an aesthetical judgement....nothing to do with realism.

And its exactly the tack I tried to take at the start of the thread. I thought the idea of moving the gun-sight to the centre would be a more 'palatable' option, visually speaking. If you read the thread you can see how well that went down.

So, if moving the gun-sight is off the cards but we still want to simulate what a 109 pilot actually sees it's the projected reticle.

Yep.

As visually unsettling as it may be for some (and i'm not immune to the visual charm of the current set-up) it's the correct way to go. 109 pilot's did not have to mess about to see their gunsight projected before them and if realism is the watchword here (which I have been assured it is by some in this thread ) then a projected reticle should be coded in.

In our Apache simulations no one complains about a big green floating HUD in front of them. No one would dream of complaining about it....it's too obviously a necessary visual element of what the Apache pilot sees when he looks upon the world.

On the other hand the horror being expressed at giving the 109 pilot the exact same visual element is....odd.

[Wolf_Rider]

would technical limitations prohibit that though?

all other sights would (I assume) be coded to float within the confines of the centered sight

[Lixma]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

would technical limitations prohibit that though?

all other sights would (I assume) be coded to float within the confines of the centered sight

You would only be able to see as much or as little of the reticle as your in-game pilot would see with his virtual right eye.

So under G-forces and manoeuvring the reticle image will still be cut off or disappear just like any other gun-sight. It's not like you could see a full reticle in front of you at all times, there is no advantage being sought or gained here.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by Lixma

You would only be able to see as much or as little of the reticle as your in-game pilot would see with his virtual right eye.

So under G-forces and manoeuvring the reticle image will still be cut off or disappear just like any other gun-sight. It's not like you could see a full reticle in front of you at all times, there is no advantage being sought or gained here.

sorry, I meant for just "recreating" the RL effect of just having the reticule float on centre screen without having any key command, like currently exists with the Shft + F1

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

would technical limitations prohibit that though?

all other sights would (I assume) be coded to float within the confines of the centered sight

?

[Lixma]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

would technical limitations prohibit that though?

all other sights would (I assume) be coded to float within the confines of the centered sight

It should not be difficult.

We are simply adjusting the reticles visibility parameters (which are already coded in) into the players line of sight....instead of shifting the players' line of sight to intercept the reticle (which is what Shift-F1 does). It's merely a shift in geometry, not a change in the physics or logic of the display.

Originally Posted by DayGlow

Also aesthetically I don't like the sight just hanging there in 2D space.

But i'll guarantee you'd have no problem with a DCS:Apache HUD hanging there in space. Nobody in their right mind would. But when it comes to the Bf-109....it makes us uneasy.

This is exactly why I started the thread suggesting moving the gunsight to the centre of the dash. I thought this would be aesthetically more palatable than a floating reticle (which, if not done carefully could look pretty odd). But as I found out people were threatening to slit their first-borns' throat than suffer any such concessions to realism.

However, no sooner than a realistic solution is presented - concern for realism is quickly sacrificed on the alter of aesthetics!

The floating reticle would, I freely admit, be weird at first. But for no other reason than it has never been done before in a WW2 flight sim (AFAIK). The received tradition has always been to move the players' perspective to line up with the gunsight, or model the gunsight as centrally mounted. If a floating reticle is realistic then let's have one. In a few years people will be wondering what all the fuss was about.

[David Hayward]

Lixma, you should create a message with charts and graphs and 8x10 glossy photos with circles and arrows and send it to Luthier. Convincing us you are right will not get you very far. You need to convince Luthier.

Personally, I'm fine with a gunsight view that is as close to what the real pilot would experience as possible, even if it looks a little odd.