BF109 - Can't we just have the gunsight in the middle?

[heloguy]

Originally Posted by Lixma

And here is what a pilot with two eyes open would see....

As a pilot that flies with HUD every once in awhile, no, that's not what you would see. If I adjust the HUD so only half of it is visible in my right eye, I don't magically see the reverse of that half mirrored on the left. I only see the half, unless I adjust it back to center. HUD, and reflector sights are pretty much the same thing, it's just that the HUD shows information from a processor, instead of only an image of a gunsight. The way it's modeled now is correct.

[Lixma]

Originally Posted by heloguy

As a pilot that flies with HUD every once in awhile, no, that's not what you would see. If I adjust the HUD so only half of it is visible in my right eye, I don't magically see the reverse of that half mirrored on the left.

Then don't adjust the HUD so only half of it is visible in your right eye.

The offset Revi sight in the 109 projects a full image onto the right eye, not half.

[Sauf]

Originally Posted by Lixma

Then don't adjust the HUD so only half of it is visible in your right eye.

The offset Revi sight in the 109 projects a full image onto the right eye, not half.

Correct, if the pilot leans a bit to the right! ie loosen straps. Back to where we started.

I now understand what Lixma continually explains.

I just come to thinking that both the cockpit of the 109 and the 190 was sooo small that the final paralaxis was insufficient to make the pilot lean to the side in order to align to the sight.

See real historic picture of the 190, the revi's left edge as seen by the pilot is cockpit centred:


The Focke pilot actually sits quite centred while his right eye is spot on on the revi sight. The left edge of the reflector glass is centred as is the pilot's nose which is pressumably in the middle between both eyes. My guess is that the pilot sees the full image of the aim circle as much as I see my hand when I hold it in front of the right half of my face. And I still can regognize it as a hand but the image is that it is superimposed with the background like putting to photo slides together. You can easily try this yourself without any particular equipment.

It is a bit difficult as both eyes will focus at two different distances that is a bit strenuous when you hold your hand that way. However this problem is inexistent for the revi sight as the aim circle was projected as if in far away distance is I understand correctly, so no focus problem.

[heloguy]

Originally Posted by Lixma

Then don't adjust the HUD so only half of it is visible in your right eye.

The offset Revi sight in the 109 projects a full image onto the right eye, not half.

I'm not so sure. I would hope the develpers would have had some time to sit and try one out, as apparently some people on youtube have.

Personally, it seems to me that moving your head from a fixed reflector sight is no different than me changing the position of the reflection of the HUD on its fixed position on my NVGs. Anyway, I'm pretty sure the game is right, and your wrong. The pilot would have to keep his head pretty still to keep that sight from disappearing.

[spiritdmp]

Originally Posted by heloguy

As a pilot that flies with HUD every once in awhile, no, that's not what you would see. If I adjust the HUD so only half of it is visible in my right eye, I don't magically see the reverse of that half mirrored on the left. ...

Yeah that's the point missing here, you would have to be able to adjust your HUD so that ALL of it is visible in your right eye, and NONE of it is visible in your left eye.

Then your brain magically blends both images together.

[edit] damn beat me to it lixma, kudos for your indefatigable patience![/edit]

[b101uk]

Originally Posted by heloguy

As a pilot that flies with HUD every once in awhile, no, that's not what you would see. If I adjust the HUD so only half of it is visible in my right eye, I don't magically see the reverse of that half mirrored on the left. I only see the half, unless I adjust it back to center. HUD, and reflector sights are pretty much the same thing, it's just that the HUD shows information from a processor, instead of only an image of a gunsight. The way it's modeled now is correct.

lol

HUD are for looking threw with both eyes thus however you adjust the HUD the left eye can always see what’s on the right side hence it wont work, if the gun sight has a significantly narrow FOV for the reflected recticle so the right eye is centred over the reflected reticle and at the same the left eye cannot see the reflected recticle on the reflector glass then the effect will work like monocular HMD.

[zxwings]

Originally Posted by Lixma

And here is what a pilot with two eyes open would see....

This image is erroneous for the two-eye-open situation, in that the cockpit here is strictly the only-LEFT-eye-open cockpit. Instead, the correct image shoud be a certain superposition of the left-eye cockpit image and the right-eye cockpit image, the two images being transparent to each other.

~~~
All the above discussions (yours and mine) are about the situation where the left eyeball's axis and the right eyeball's axis (by axis I mean the direction an eyeball is pointing at) are parallel; in other words, the pair of eyeballs are looking at a point relatively far away, such as a fighter you are aiming at. If the pilot looks at objects inside the cockpit, the way to take screenshots for the two eyes will be different.

If, for example, the pilot is gazing right at the Revi gunsight with two eyes, the Revi gunsight would be at the centre of both his left eye vision and his right eye vision, but would look slightly different for being looked at from slightly different points of view. The brain then processes these two images to form a binocular 3D vision of the Revi. So the image posted for the left eye (with right eye shut), pasted below, would be wrong if the left eyeball is also looking at--pointing at--the Revi gunsight, because now the Revi should be at the centre of the image.

Yeah, but as we don't have 3D capable game now we have to make the best approximation to reality as possible with a game that tries to represent a 3D environment with only 2 dimensions available.

And as for the aim circle depiction the best compromise with respect to a 2D world and binocular vision simulation is to show the whole aim point circle wobbling slightly around the centre of the screen as long as the right eye is capable to capt the full circle on the reflector glas with all the headshake. So me thinks Lixma got the point at how it should be presented in the game.

[Hatch]

For those that still have aproblem visualizing it, try this.

Set a (D)SLR camera to infinity and look through the viewfinder while keeping both eyes open.
( don't block your other eye with teh camera body LOL)

You'll have steropscopic vision with the viewfinder data superimposed.

Now try to read the numbbers in the viewfinder while keeping track of whats happening in the distance.

That's what requires training, not the actual superimpostioning.