What am I doing wrong with the spitfire ?

[Orpheus]

Viper - saw your post and went off to test it. You're right about it changing the propellor pitch - I see the RPM drop from 2900 on takeoff to around 2400 at about 1200 feet and stay there, and after that the Spitfire accelerates/climbs like an absolute pig. I'm getting climb rates of around 110 mph, not 170, though that is low level after takeoff.

It's the difference between the two that's most startling. I tested the same in a Hurricane at 2000 ft and was getting a climb speed of around 170, rpm again in the 2900 region. Is this really just a quirk of the aircraft, or am I just flying it like a pillock? I had no trouble at all in the Hurricane, I assume because it doesn't have the variable prop?

Thanks for taking the time to check for me anyway. I realise I've repeated the same circular argument that the op began with, although I guess I now have a clearer understanding of the way the engines operate.

[Viper2000]

Originally Posted by Orpheus

Viper - saw your post and went off to test it. You're right about it changing the propellor pitch - I see the RPM drop from 2900 on takeoff to around 2400 at about 1200 feet and stay there, and after that the Spitfire accelerates/climbs like an absolute pig. I'm getting climb rates of around 110 mph, not 170, though that is low level after takeoff.

Set full power.

Takeoff.

Clean up.

Then just stay in level flight until you're flying at 180-190 mph.

Now trim the aeroplane for constant IAS.

You should see a rate of climb just under 2000 fpm, which will improve as you get higher and the engine rpm increases.

If you're flying at 110 mph then you're doing it wrong; you've got loads of induced drag and performance will be terrible. Indeed, at full power if you pitch to 80 mph you'll find that it can't either climb or accelerate, because all the power is going into making turbulence.

The only time you should ever fly a Spitfire slower than about 170 mph IAS is for takeoff and landing.

[Orpheus]

Originally Posted by Viper2000

Set full power.

Takeoff.

Clean up.

Then just stay in level flight until you're flying at 180-190 mph.

Now trim the aeroplane for constant IAS.

You should see a rate of climb just under 2000 fpm, which will improve as you get higher and the engine rpm increases.

If you're flying at 110 mph then you're doing it wrong; you've got loads of induced drag and performance will be terrible. Indeed, at full power if you pitch to 80 mph you'll find that it can't either climb or accelerate, because all the power is going into making turbulence.

The only time you should ever fly a Spitfire slower than about 170 mph IAS is for takeoff and landing.

Heh, yeah - you're right. Was up surprisingly late last night flying the spit in the GB campaign. I'm very new to these games but I do see it now. Not sure what IAS stands for, I assume something AirSpeed (but then I have trouble trimming to level flight in any single engine it seems, I can keep the nose down with the elevator trim but never overcome the pull to the right with rudder trim). At higher altitudes it's a different beast entirely, much faster acceleration overall.

Appreciate you taking the time to talk me through it. I knew when I bought this game it was going to have a deep flight model... just didn't expect the two planes to be so different! Only thing that's confusing me now is that said campaign spitfire doesn't seem to have tracers... or indeed any visible indication of bullet strike on enemy aircraft (or water, for that matter) at even the closest range - though I still get the 'player damage 98%' at the end of the mission, so I am hitting! Free flight spits have the tracers and bullet strike is obvious even at long ranges, so maybe it's just a bug?

[jimbop]

Indicated Air Speed. There's a good explanation of IAS vs True Air Speed in the manual.

[robtek]

No, imho it is just a different ammo-loadout with no tracers as the experts used.
No need to advise your enemy that you are sitting in his six and did miss him with the first burst.

[Orpheus]

I see it now, had my sight range way out of whack. Thanks again guys

[Raven Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Viper2000

Set full power.

Takeoff.

Clean up.

Then just stay in level flight until you're flying at 180-190 mph.

Now trim the aeroplane for constant IAS.

You should see a rate of climb just under 2000 fpm, which will improve as you get higher and the engine rpm increases.

If you're flying at 110 mph then you're doing it wrong; you've got loads of induced drag and performance will be terrible. Indeed, at full power if you pitch to 80 mph you'll find that it can't either climb or accelerate, because all the power is going into making turbulence.

The only time you should ever fly a Spitfire slower than about 170 mph IAS is for takeoff and landing.

Apologies for bringing up an a month old thread but I am having this problem also.

In my case I take off as follows -

1. Start the engine.
2. Raise the throttle level whilst holding the brakes on.
3. I let go of the brakes to begin travelling down the runway.
4. I wait and let the tail come up then I pull back on the stick to get off the ground.

As others have said a short time after that when I am trying to climb the RPM drops and the Spit then refuses to climb and barely holds level, in fact if I let go of the joystick which I have to pull right back to maintain level flight, the plane pitches forward into a dive.

As noted it would seem the simple engine management does this as a change in the prop pitch. This I understand. But like others I don't wish to learn CEM as it's a whole other level of difficulty - and I am a complete novice and don't have the full realism on at all.

But I am slightly confused as to what to do about it if indeed this issue can be solved without resorting to using CEM.

Please could you explain in simple laymans terms how one does what you have described above in the game, as I said I am a complete noob and have no understanding of how to fly a plane, particularly what you mean by "Clean up" and how one trims the plane for a constant airspeed?

Also whilst on this subject does the game have a set ceiling for certain planes? I flew the Hurricane in some missions in the campaign against BF-109s and they were able to climb to a higher level than I could, the Hurricane would get to a certain height and then simply refuse to climb any further - is this a similar problem to the one experienced in the Spitfire?

Thank you.

[RE77ACTION]

Originally Posted by Raven Morpheus

Please could you explain in simple laymans terms how one does what you have described above in the game, as I said I am a complete noob and have no understanding of how to fly a plane, particularly what you mean by "Clean up" and how one trims the plane for a constant airspeed?

With "clean up" I think he meant pulling up landing gear and landing flaps when used at the start. These two will induce great drag.

Personally I would advice everybody to use and learn CEM after you are able to start, fly and land a plane. It's not that difficult to get the basics and it ads enormous to the overall experience and your/the planes performance. Pitch control is almost as essential as throttle control. This counts even more for the bombers and heavy fighters (think of modern road trucks with 16 gears).

[Raven Morpheus]

Originally Posted by RE77ACTION

With "clean up" I think he meant pulling up landing gear and landing flaps when used at the start. These two will induce great drag.

Ah right, yes I see that, I don't actually have landing flaps down when taking off, and obviously I raise the undercarriage. Should I be using landing flaps on takeoff, I thought as the name suggests that they are for landing?

Mind you I have seen combat flaps mentioned in this and many of the threads here discussing "trim" and yet I can find no key binding for them and no mention of them in any of the options menus.

I have just tried some of Viper2000s advice (the bits I understand), maintaining a level flight until the IAS is over 180, and it does work, to a certain extent, but it makes climbing in the 2nd Spit mission to meet the bombers painfully slow and by the time I'm at any decent altitude (highest I've got the Spit to go so far is 6000ft) I'm well out of range of any enemy aircraft and the bombers have flown past a long while before.

As for using CEM, all I want is an accessible, but slightly more realistic than the likes of games like Blazing Angels, WWII flight game that I can pick up and play for a few hours here and there, adding CEM into the mix seems like it will over complicate things, and just looking through the key bindings it seems I need a couple of extra arms and a couple of keyboards to map and use all the controls required.

It's just too complicated for someone who wants to pick up a game and fly and take down bogies for a while.

And I don't recall having similar issues in IL-2 1946, although I will now go back and double check that.

Forgive me for discussing this though as I suspect it's all been said before, but I'm new to the forums and this Spitfire problem is rather frustrating, up until the switch to Manston the campaign had been rather enjoyable for me.

[RE77ACTION]

Making your aircraft fly straight at a certain speed with your hands off the joystick is called trimming. Most people do it once they are up to speed. But remember that every speed on every altitude needs its own trim to be perfect. Trimming the ailerons is not possible with a spitfire. This is why it wants to roll to the right most of the time. With the right combination of RPM and pitch this pull can be minimized but gives other drawbacks the same time.

Flaps can be used during take-off to limit the space needed to take-off. This can be useful on short runways and/or with heavy load. Some planes have special flap settings for combat, but most don't. You can use your landing flaps to make an extra tight turn. But the disadvantage is that your IAS (Indicated Air Speed) shouldn't be too high to prevent damage and that you come even slower out of a turn. However it can be useful in some situations. Using flaps in combat situations is typically for the more advanced players.