Heinkels of steel?

[Pbs]

Problem of Battle of Britain in weak weapon. This is early stage of war. Thats why in 1942-1945 fighters fly with 30mm cannons or several 20-mm autocannons. Thats why i hate Battle of Britain. I want eastern front with USSR, or at least pacific war - late japan planes have very powerful weapon too.

[BadAim]

Re-belt your Spittie with 4 guns AP and 4 guns DeWilde @ 200-250 yds convergence and actually shoot at convergence. If you get a decent hit ratio, (I.E. you can hit the broad side of a barn) you'll take down a couple of 111's before you run out of ammo.

Lesson learned? He 111= big plane / .303= small bullet

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Ploughman

This is the best thing for me. Sitting on the arse of a Heinkel and filling it full of lead and it still keeps going despite the damage. Just like the history books say. Having said that fill the wing between the engine and the fuselage with incendary bullets and that fuel tank'll blow like Guy Fawkes. I can't wait for a butcher bird in this sim.

Exactly my experience so far, i've had Heinkels blow up like that and i was even using the default ammo belt. I've also had the same happen when attacking Blenheims just with the machine guns on the 110 while my gunner was reloading my cannons.

In both of these cases, the way it happened is that i placed a good burst and started a fuel leak on the target, following it up with a second burst a few seconds later. This is so close to what we've been reading in the books, the damage model is insane in this sim: first you start the leak, give it a couple of seconds to vaporise and if you shoot at it again you can ignite the entire fuel tank.

Overall, the He111s did have a reputation of returning home with hundreds of .303 bullet holes so i would advise aiming for the cockpit from head-on, or at the very least come in slightly from the sides. This also yields much improved results against any type of target, as you stand a good chance of scoring hits in the cockpit and killing the crew...i've had sorties in the G.50 where i scored 3-4 kills, each with a burst so short that i didn't even get the chance to see tracers. You just come in from the side, hose them down and see them nose down and dive into the drink.

Finally, if you want to compare with or get an easier experience, go against some Dorniers. I routinely fly the low level intercept mission and i can easily get 3-4 kills by the time my magazine is empty without any fancy work at all, i just come in from dead six and blast them until point blank range, walk the tracers from engine to cockpit to other engine, loop over them and come back for the next one.

[Mr_Steven]

I think the biggest problem is the anti-bomber tactics that most pilots are using. The worst spot to be by far is the 6 O' Clock, and it seems that's the most common place guys are firing from. Head-on is obviously quite effective as you get a good look at the crew, however I'm really not a fan due to the fact that you are whizzing by and it takes quite a bit longer to get back in position for your next pass, especially if you plan on going head on again. My preferred way to attack is high, and from the 3-4 O' Clock angle, or the 8-9 O' Clock angle, but being high is of extreme importance. Come in straight as an arrow, much faster than they are going, keep your nose pointed out far in front of the bomber, but in his flight path so only small adjustments are required on the way in, hammer the piss out of it as close to your convergence as possible, and as soon as you stop firing your focus is now on your next pass. At this point you want to continue your same heading but also regaining all of your altitude, and once you've got what most would consider an unneccessarily large altitude advantage, you turn around and repeat.

In terms of potential damage I think this system is as good as the head-on, possibly better, but what's most important is you get a lot more passes over the course of a mission.

I remember one of those old 'Friday Bomber Nights' on '46 where one of the maps was a Battle of Britain style He-111 attack and I was able to bring down 3 of them in the battle, in a Hurricane Mk.1, and gloriously make it back home. Gun convergence is very crucial as many have mentioned, I like it around 125m or 150m for .303's. Happy shooting.

[Triggaaar]

Originally Posted by Pbs

Problem of Battle of Britain in weak weapon. This is early stage of war. Thats why in 1942-1945 fighters fly with 30mm cannons or several 20-mm autocannons. Thats why i hate Battle of Britain.

You realise that the little 303s shot down a lot of planes in the BoB? We just need to learn how best to use the weapons.

[HamishUK]

Originally Posted by Triggaaar

You realise that the little 303s shot down a lot of planes in the BoB? We just need to learn how best to use the weapons.

Reading Steve Bungay's book again "The Most Dangerous Enemy" and an excellent section from a Hurricane pilot who indicated that over 200 yards the .303 was highly ineffective at bringing down the Heinkel and even harder for the Ju88. He went even further to state that the Polish squadrons (who were more experienced fighter pilots) were attacking head on.

So agree with your statement Triggaar. Bringing down a bomber is about finding a weak spot and getting the convergence right.

[Triggaaar]

Originally Posted by HamishUK

Reading Steve Bungay's book again "The Most Dangerous Enemy" and an excellent section from a Hurricane pilot who indicated that over 200 yards the .303 was highly ineffective at bringing down the Heinkel and even harder for the Ju88.

So we either need to go head on, or get in close.

Now all I need to do is work out how to change my armourment and convergence

[mazex]

Thanks for all the advice here! I actually fire at 150 yards just like my convergence, but I'm for sure going to try a mix of incendiary and AP at the wing root!

And for sure there are many records of pilots emptying all their ammo with no result, at the other hand there are a lot of "I fired a short burst and saw the left landing gear falling down" etc.... Never happens to me

Then of course the Polish head on is attractive Will try that too. This sim has so much potential now that the fps is decent. Eagerly awaiting my 2600k / GTX580 rig to throw some hardware at the problem also!

[Fredfetish]

I seem to get the best results with loading with incendiary tracers, rest all AP with 2 guns fitted with De Wilde @150m conv. So ok then half AP/ half incendiary. However, I do feel a bit annoyed about the whole .303 effect on the planes.
For 1 everyone states that if you sit on the six of say a Me 109 and fire that there is nothing of importance in the tail and everything gets blocked by the armour behind the seat of the pilot. Firstly, so what then of the AP rounds? Are they not supposed to pass straight through the armour, the fuel tanks the pilot and hit the engine? X4 in my case. I thing all of the default load outs have at least 1 AP load. Isn’t the tail also considered to be of some importance?
Secondly, everyone then states that the .303 is so ineffective. I guess if you shoot the plane with 1 bullet, then yes in retrospect the effects could be minimal. However, you have 8 very high rate of fire guns firing all at once. The effect on the plane would by more like ripping paper than punching a hundred wholes into it one at a time with a couple of seconds in between.
In combat, planes losing their wings were more an effect of being torn off due to the sudden force of the bullet impact and the fact that the wing is already under strain from the wind flow rather than the struts being individually severed by bullet fire. If you see the amount of cartridges that come out of a fellow Hurri firing, it seems it would be more effective to just fly in front of the enemy plane and have it banged up by the incoming cartridges
BUT.... the last mission in the British campaign: Seeing tracers fly out in the night sky to the enemy plane, the glow of bullet impacts, then the ensuing fire and fire ball upon crashing .... Amazing!

[jimbop]

Nothing wrong with the guns, just have to learn how to use them! All my flying for the last few days has been practice against bombers. With the ammo loadout described in the above post set at 150 you can knock anything out of the sky with the rotol.

Even sitting on six of a Heinkel or Dornier (when you've got the gunner) works well if you land enough hits. I've ripped the entire tail off several times and getting the elevator is also good news.