Bf-110 is THE fighter

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

Well that's the historical fact, wheter you like it or not. It was discussed in lenght on a non-kiddie board.

The rest of you post I don't care, its the usual blabbering and nonsense...

If you want to suggest that when quoted the contents of your own board are blabbering and nonsense, then feel free...

You don't by the way, even quote directly from Bergstrom's book, we have 2nd hand account... typical.

In any case, Bergstrom's comments and facts are to be taken with a large grain of salt. There were 224 serviceable on strength 110's at the start of the Battle, the Germans lost 196... not a good ratio.

You point to the fact the British lost a higher percentage of their starting fighter force. There are some very good reasons for that, number one they were heavily outnumbered.

According to the official RAF Battle of Britain site there were the following serviceable daylight fighters available on August 10th:

Spitfire - 245
Hurricane - 382
Defiant - 22
Gladiator - 2

Total - 651

These aircraft were distributed all over Britain, they could not abandon the midlands or the north, only some 450 were based southern England ready to meet the Luftwaffe. Against them on August 10, according to the original Luftwaffe reports, there were serviceable aircraft amounting to:

109: 805

110: 224

Heinkel, Dornier, Ju-88: 998

Ju-87 - 261

Total: 2288 aircraft

The RAF was outnumbered by more than 4-1 in the main battle area. And the RAF's fighters main task was to shoot down German bombers, not fighters. This was not a case of fighter versus fighter matchup, it was a case of the heavily outnumbered RAF going for the bombers, while having to fight off greater numbers of German fighters.

What were the losses?

In total the British lost 1,023 fighters, including the two seater Defiants.

The Germans lost 873 fighters and 1,014 bombers destroyed in the daylight phase of the battle. 1887 aircraft. They also lost a number of coastal aircraft and recon.

In addition, the British lost 376 bombers and 148 aircraft from Coastal Command, but the bombers and coastal command aircraft were almost entirely lost at night during the strategic bombing of German industrial targets, and the bombing of the channel ports at night, not due to Luftwaffe dayfighter action. Conversely, when the Germans began their night bombing 'Blitz', which ran from Mid September '40 to May of '41, they lost approx. 600 bombers.

Total loss comparison was therefore 1.84 to 1 in favour of the British during the daylight battles, despite the fact they were heavily outnumbered.

If Kurfurst wants to try to set up loss ratios without taking into account the total loss figures and strength comparisons, he is welcome to do so, but his conclusions are not going to have any serious credibility.

[123-Wulf-123]

Here we go with the compulsive, obsessive, 12 page threads on why Spitfires were the best plane in the world ever, ever, and the nasty Messerschitts were the worst ever, ever,


CHARTS!!!!

We need CHARTS!!!!!!!

Geez get a life.

[JG53Frankyboy]

As a sidenote, only TWO squadrons of all the units Bf110 were used as fighterbombers during the BOB, 1. & 2./ErpGrp210 (3. flew 109 fighterbombers till November )

and i hope 1C will change the 110C-4/-7 canons to MG-Ff/M soon.

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by 123-Wulf-123

Here we go with the compulsive, obsessive, 12 page threads on why Spitfires were the best plane in the world ever, ever, and the nasty Messerschitts were the worst ever, ever,


CHARTS!!!!

We need CHARTS!!!!!!!

Geez get a life.

I don't think thats the case, just stating well documented 'facts', and in all fairness it is generally aknowledged that the 109 was the most superior and numerous aircraft overall adding to that the german pilots were also arguably superior too, considering they were more experienced and battle hardened....well they did start it after all

but despite that the Brits and foreign contingents somehow kicked 'arsch'

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by 123-Wulf-123

Here we go with the compulsive, obsessive, 12 page threads on why Spitfires were the best plane in the world ever, ever, and the nasty Messerschitts were the worst ever, ever,


CHARTS!!!!

We need CHARTS!!!!!!!

Geez get a life.

Actually what we are seeing from your comments is a 'gamer' congratulating himself on getting an aircraft with an unrealistic advantage, and then whining when the true facts are presented.

For those of us who prefer to think CLIFFS OF DOVER is what was promised, ie. a "SIMULATION", pointing out instances where an aircraft has an ahistorical advantage is simply good feedback.

[123-Wulf-123]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

Actually what we are seeing from your comments is a 'gamer' congratulating himself on getting an aircraft with an unrealistic advantage, and then whining when the true facts are presented.

For those of us who prefer to think CLIFFS OF DOVER is what was promised, ie. a "SIMULATION", pointing out instances where an aircraft has an ahistorical advantage is simply good feedback.

Untwist yer knickers and get a life lol

[Frequent_Flyer]

The majority of the Luftwaffe losses in WW II in both men and equipment were at the hands of the Western Allies. No matter the tactics or aircraft employeed by the Luftwaffe the losses became unsustainable and ultimately had no impact on the wars final outcome. In addition, the 109 and the Spitfire were both poor performers, both carried a thimbleful of fuel at could not land a knock out punch to it's advesary when the opportunity presented itself.
The squadron with the most victories for the RAF, in the battle of Britian, was the Polish pilots of 303,- 126 confirmed. They only were allowed to participate in the secnd half of the battle. The majority of these victories were scored in Hurricanes. In fact I beleive the majority of the total number of RAF victories in BOB were scored in the lowly Hurricane.
Supporting the argument , the pilot has much more of an impact on an egagement than the aircraft.

[lbuchele]

Yes,but the Hurricane was responsible for 60% or more the total number of english fighters too...

[addman]

Overmodeled LOL! Try some turn n' burn in it and then accelerate away, slow as a snail, just like all the accounts. It turns pretty good, bad roll rate, good speed, horrible acceleration and I love it!