Inaccurate performance data for BOB fighters in COD comparing to RL data

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by csThor

It's most likely II./JG 26 which received the DB 601N-powered aircraft but I am still hesitant to see this type as more than a "candy bar" for the most successful pilots (still too much of a guess rather than knowledge).

Agreed. For the most part of the big daylight battles, the 109s with 601N weren't that numerous to justify the coding required. A 110C-x/N on the other hand is a must IMHO, with roughly half the ZGs were flying, and giving the 110 flying some favour. And it's probably II/JG 26 as you say, though I'd wager that it wasn't handed out to the most successfull pilots of seperate JGs initially. The 19 July memo specifically mentions a Gruppe, plus otherwise logistics and maintaince would be nightmarish, with a mix of 601A and 601N powered Emils...

If I had to choose the line-up, I'd do this:

Bf 109E-1 of 1939, as E-3, but with four MG 17s
[b]Bf 109E-3 (what we have now) of 1939, manual prop pitch, probably no armor(?), 601A. This is pretty much as the 109E started the war in September. A good stand in for May 1940 France battles as well.

Bf 109E-4, 1940. Auto prop pitch, pilot/fuel tank armor in the fuselage. Optionally head/windscreen armor (the latter seems to have been randomly appearing on planes), MG FF/Ms (Mine shells ). Standard DB 601A. 'Boxy' canopy instead of the rounded one. This would represent the detail improvements made in the meantime of September 1939 - May-August 1940, just like the CSP/armor thing on BoB Spitties/Hurris. Plus most E-3 were converted to E-4 by August anyway (the designation was changed because of the MG - FF/M cannon, slightly modified to fire high capacity HE shells).

Bf 109E-7/N. As E-4, but with 601N, and the E-7 can also carry drop tank. Not only it could represent E-7s that started to arrive in August 1940 and become the major production model, it could step-in as the early few E-3/N or E-4/N 'candy bars', as well as older E-1/E-3/E-4 retrofitted with droptanks, and could be well used for later adds ons and scenarios, such as Afrika or Barbarossa, by which time the remaining Emils were typically E-7/Ns beside 109Fs.. I'd skip the basic E-7 entirely, it only differes from the E-4 in the droptank option, and the slightly more powerful (ca +50 HP..) DB 601Aa... needless waste of development time IMHO.

[TheGrunch]

I'd agree with that line-up wholeheartedly.

Going through ORBs now, and honestly sometimes it is hard to say. Often you can read about a squadron receiving a certain number of 'improved Hurricane aircraft from 5MU' and really there is little more information than that.

EDIT: Any comment on the phrase Me. Jaguars? Referring to aircraft dive-bombing? Maybe 110s?

[csThor]

Jaguar was the propaganda nickname for bomb-carrying Bf 110s.

@ Kurfürst

Right now we don't have more than incomplete hints about the presence of DB 601N-powered Emils. I certainly agree that equipping a full Gruppe would be more logic WRT supply issues but when looking at the numbers of Bf 109s involved in the BoB that number is still quite insignificant. Like I said modelling the Bf 109 E-7/N (or E-4/N for that matter) could have gameplay value if the campaign engine was more sophisticated.

On the other hand you're right about the Bf 110s since they had absolute priority for getting the DB 601Ns at first.

[TheGrunch]

A total of 561 of all E-4 versions were built, [12] including 250 E-4, 20 E-4/N, 211 E-4/B and 15 E-4/BN. [11]


[11] RLM Lieferplan Nr. 18 Ausgabe 3, 01.11.1940 (Deliveries up to 31.10.1940)
[12] Ritger 2006, p. 171.

Wikipedia says this...not the most reliable source I know.

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

Wikipedia says this...not the most reliable source I know.

Yeah I edited that part there there..

Though keep in mind that the delivery list is for newly produced (Neubau) aircraft, but apparantly, most 601N Emils were retrofits of existing airframes. Just check the 1st January 1941 strenght breakdown on my site, linked above - 54 E-4s (compare to the 20+15 factory produced..), 16 E-1/N (none produced by factories as per the Delivery Plans..) etc.

The story is that 110s had absolute priority at first, so they put up with producing a Gruppe worth of E-4/Ns. I can see the reasoning... the upped 110s would be just as fast as Spits, and much faster than Hurris.. as opposed to upped 109s being... more faster than the Hurricanes.. wait.. they are already faster than Hurris!

That changed in around October, 109s got priority, but by then the E-7 was the new (and IIRC - sole production type, with the E-1/E-3 already stopped and the E-4 stopping, older ones being upgraded to E-7 standard. So most 109E-x/N types were E-7/N, plus a number of older types that were retrofitted.

Radinger's 109A-E book's Delivery/Lieferplan based list of E-7 production seem to suggest that all (452 E-7 production total of the top of my head) had 601N instead of, but I have some doubts about that, probably some confusion when converting the original Lieferplan into book-form. I recall Olivier (butch2k) also said that all E-7s got the DB 601Aa instead of the 'vanila' 601A-1, besides the ones that got 601N.

That being said, IMO it is undoubtedly true and I agree that the 601N power Emils did not play a significant role the summer - quite simply just a handful were around. They were the highest performance fighters around, with speed I reckon in the order of 590-595 km/h. But the /N types did not become significant until towards the end of the year, and of course, the first half of 1941.

Hence why I believe an E-7/N would be a better choice, with an eye on forthcoming 1941 scenarios (Circuses and Rhubarbs and Africa, Greece, Barbarossa etc.). The E-7/N is simply a must for a late Emil that could be re-used in dozens of scenarios. Plus there would be no whining that Blue doesn't get da boosta variant.

Modelling an 50-odd production run like the E-4/N would be a waste of time.. for the same reason, I am a bit puzzled about the Spitifire Mark II's ... pretty much the same thing as the Mark I, in every respect. Same speed, same climb, same guns.. Oh, sorry, different engine starter!!! as opposed to a Hurricane Mark II, that was significantly better than the Hurri Mk I..

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

EDIT: Any comment on the phrase Me. Jaguars? Referring to aircraft dive-bombing? Maybe 110s?

A fictional Jabo variant of the 110, that made into the English press at the start of the war. From English Flight magazine illustration from 1939, the Germans cunningly made it look like exactly as the 110.

I suppose it was based on rumors of the Me 210 development (which indeed started out as a 110 with a bomb bay).