Cliffs of Dover Video Thread V1.0 [Closed]

[Sven]

Originally Posted by Zoom2136

This plane should not be able to fly with its center of gravity all messed up like that.

Not necessarily, example: The Airacobra, an American fighter plane, had it's point of gravity in the middle ( since the engine was placed there ), this was purposely done to create a very manoeuvrable airplane. Engine chopped off will surely cause for a very unpleasant flight, but that's the aerodynamics that mainly cause that, the centre of gravity will probably be where the pilot is, and actually improve flight characteristics, although it doesn't add up to what I previously said.

[F16_Petter]

Originally Posted by Sven

Not necessarily, example: The Airacobra, an American fighter plane, had it's point of gravity in the middle ( since the engine was placed there ), this was purposely done to create a very manoeuvrable airplane. Engine chopped off will surely cause for a very unpleasant flight, but that's the aerodynamics that mainly cause that, the centre of gravity will probably be where the pilot is, and actually improve flight characteristics, although it doesn't add up to what I previously said.

The engine of a Hurricane has a dry weight of 1,640 lb (744 kg) and is ofcourse located forward of centre of gravity. (almost at the edge of forward momentum.)

A small plane losing that much weight so far out of cg would defenetly become unstable and probably uncontrollable in pitch axis especially when speed drops.
(Empty weight of Hurri is about 5,700 lb (2,600 kg) and the engine is almost a third of that value)

Speed proves that bricks can fly, but I think that Zoom2136 has a valid point here... There are several videos showing that the damage model may note be flawless... (hurricane flying without two wings etc.)

I guess the only way is to let Mytbusters do the test!

[Hoverbug]

Originally Posted by F16_Petter

The engine of a Hurricane has a dry weight of 1,640 lb (744 kg) and is ofcourse located forward of centre of gravity. (almost at the edge of forward momentum.)

A small plane losing that much weight so far out of cg would defenetly become unstable and probably uncontrollable in pitch axis especially when speed drops.
(Empty weight of Hurri is about 5,700 lb (2,600 kg) and the engine is almost a third of that value)

Speed proves that bricks can fly, but I think that Zoom2136 has a valid point here... There are several videos showing that the damage model may note be flawless... (hurricane flying without two wings etc.)

I guess the only way is to let Mytbusters do the test!

You don't need to involve Mythbusters to understand what should happen. If the engine comes off the CG will shift aft of the center of pressure. The CG can sit forward of the center of pressure in normal operation because you have a tail down force (the horizontal stab being a wing with a lift vector acting downwards) with a long arm balancing it out. This lever arm is providing the stability and pitch control. Move the CG aft of the center of pressure and you have an unbalanced system. If you were in a vacuum, it would result in a sustained backwards tumble. In the atmosphere, there are going to be some chaotic and extreme aerodynamic loads that would be applied to the airframe, which in reality would probably result in some significant structural failures.

So, it's safe to say it's not accurately modeled at present. It's also probably too much to ask for realistic CG and center of mass modeling under all flight conditions. What they should do consider is to have the loss of an engine result in a rapid pitch up and general structural failure. For a multi-engine, it would be more of a roll into the good engine side with structural failure at the root of the wing that lost the engine.

[F16_Petter]

Yes, Hoverbug.. great Idea about loss of engine/loss of tail section !

Okay.. lets keep the thread living, show us some vids!
Gunkan, por favor.. mas videos!!!

[Koyan]

Thanks to all vids creators and posters. Gave me a excellent impression that Il2 CoD is a must have for me. Great sim!

A few notes: Pilots and crew seem sometimes very quick when bailing out. The plane catches fire and immediately someone jumps out. In reality it would take more time imho. Belts, open canopy or getting to the exit, climbing out, takes more time especially when in panic.

The vid of the high speed dawn. Wonder if it would gain fps if you could switch off the animated clouds. Because at normal speed you hardly notice this.

[F16_Petter]

Originally Posted by Koyan

Thanks to all vids creators and posters. Gave me a excellent impression that Il2 CoD is a must have for me. Great sim!

A few notes: Pilots and crew seem sometimes very quick when bailing out. The plane catches fire and immediately someone jumps out. In reality it would take more time imho. Belts, open canopy or getting to the exit, climbing out, takes more time especially when in panic.

The vid of the high speed dawn. Wonder if it would gain fps if you could switch off the animated clouds. Because at normal speed you hardly notice this.

I second that (Since I have not got the sim yet, I must say what I have seen from vids posted on youtube.)
I guess it would take quite some time to strap yourself off the seat or get up from a bellygun etc and climb up or down if the plane is diving in a spiral..

A sidenote: also they seem to drop their bombload almost immideatly after being shot at aswell..? I might be wrong, Ive just seen a couple of clips..

[Oldschool61]

Originally Posted by F16_Petter

I guess it would take quite some time to strap yourself off the seat or get up from a bellygun etc and climb up or down if the plane is diving in a spiral..

My old neighbor was a togglier/bombardier in a B-17 who flew 31 missions out of Grafton-Underwood and he said that if the plane starts spinning you get pinned against the fueselage and cant move so if these planes are spinning almost no one should be able to bail out.

[Hoverbug]

Originally Posted by Oldschool61

My old neighbor was a togglier/bombardier in a B-17 who flew 31 missions out of Grafton-Underwood and he said that if the plane starts spinning you get pinned against the fueselage and cant move so if these planes are spinning almost no one should be able to bail out.

Very true in a bomber because you won't usually be able to get to an exit without effort. In a fighter, it may be possible depending on the dynamics of the spin - i.e. flat spin. If its a bit more of a dynamic oscillation, the plane might become unloaded at various points where the pilot may get lucky and be able to push out - of course not getting whacked by the tail in the process is a different issue.

[badfinger]

I have read several times that a bomber going down was always somebody's coffin.

I crawled into a B-25 once, from the bomb bay, and then through a tunnel up into the nose. I had trouble getting through with the plane sitting on the ground. My impression was that these guys knew they had little chance of getting out of a plane in trouble, and they went anyway. That's courage.

binky9

[mattag08]

Originally Posted by Sven

Not necessarily, example: The Airacobra, an American fighter plane, had it's point of gravity in the middle ( since the engine was placed there ), this was purposely done to create a very manoeuvrable airplane. Engine chopped off will surely cause for a very unpleasant flight, but that's the aerodynamics that mainly cause that, the centre of gravity will probably be where the pilot is, and actually improve flight characteristics, although it doesn't add up to what I previously said.

No, that Hurricane should've immediately pitched up, stalled, and spun into the ground. There is no possible way that removing the engine would not also move the C.G. so far aft as to become uncontrollable. This is true even with today's lighter engines and shorter nosed GA aircraft. It's doubly true for a heavy-engined, long-nosed WWII fighter.