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IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer Maddox Games.

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  #1  
Old 03-05-2011, 05:52 AM
Flying Pencil Flying Pencil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zauii View Post
Maps / Quality:

If you expect a ground simulation on the scale of IL2 maps to work together with IL2 aka a multi simulation that includes tanks,
infantry and aircraft all detailed and simulated as much as possible you're asking for far too much.

to a flight sim map which is a lot less detailed, meaning any kind of detailed world or large scale map would take forever to model in Unreal engine 3 quality.

Fun factor
Even if its a simulator the fun will be completly gone. If you model the distances in a flight sim for the infantry and vehicles on the ground we're talking hours of driving,
not to mention a very dull and undetailed ground world.. something that would be utterly boring from the 1st person perspective.

Secondly you would need thousands and thousands of players to even make it remotely interesting,
or hey lets play 32vs32 infantry combat on a map as large as Britain..

Hardware/Resources/Size
The game would be gignormous not only in size but it would take forever to develop, and what you might get out of a finished product of this type,
is not even close to worth the development cost.. thats without even mentioning how much a game like that would drain your system.
You are grossly incorrect.

WW2 Online has managed to make a reasonably playable combined arms game that uses a few tricks to make the ground war a little faster.
And you do not need very large numbers of players in a local area to make it work. Squad level skirmishes can be very challenging.

The real trick is trying to herd the cats into a reasonable organized force/ That's the challenge, and thats not so much software related.



BTW, what is RO2?
Ragnarok Online 2??
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  #2  
Old 03-05-2011, 06:52 AM
Ltbear Ltbear is offline
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well battleground europe works, and that engine is werry werry old. Maby the rats should look at MR`s new engine......its not a perfect game, but it can be loads of fun....
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  #3  
Old 03-05-2011, 07:11 AM
Kikuchiyo Kikuchiyo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Pencil View Post
You are grossly incorrect.

WW2 Online has managed to make a reasonably playable combined arms game that uses a few tricks to make the ground war a little faster.
And you do not need very large numbers of players in a local area to make it work. Squad level skirmishes can be very challenging.

The real trick is trying to herd the cats into a reasonable organized force/ That's the challenge, and thats not so much software related.



BTW, what is RO2?
Ragnarok Online 2??
I think he means Red Orchestra 2 an upcoming fps. After all FPSes are clearly strong simulations of ground combat.
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  #4  
Old 03-05-2011, 07:57 AM
Space Communist Space Communist is offline
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The closest thing that I am aware of to a full war sim is ArmA 2. It has reasonably realistic ground combat over areas large enough for aircraft to maneuver meaningfully. However, the aircraft flight models are extremely simplistic.

Nonetheless I think the game proves that such a game is well within the grasp of home computers in the next couple of years, however it would be a monumental programming task with a restricted market (by the standards of the mass-market game industry) Because of this it would require a daring and dedicated development team, probably from a smaller company. Also even at ArmA 2's level of complexity the game and its expansions have been been plagued by bugs since its release, though it has steadily gotten better and better.

So for now I dream of such a game but I will not hold my breath. Heck I would be super impressed just to see something like large numbers of low-poly infantrymen put into a game like CoD, even if they weren't playable. imagine them scattering for the hedges as you strafe a column on a road! Arguably developers might be leery about putting that in because of the graphic nature.
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  #5  
Old 03-05-2011, 08:03 AM
Sauf Sauf is offline
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I wouldnt mind trying RO2, what is the lastest version of the game called that has a demo? I see ostfront 41-45 on google but not sure if thats an old version/add-on

Cheers
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  #6  
Old 03-05-2011, 06:45 PM
Flying Pencil Flying Pencil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Communist View Post
The closest thing that I am aware of to a full war sim is ArmA 2. It has reasonably realistic ground combat over areas large enough for aircraft to maneuver meaningfully. However, the aircraft flight models are extremely simplistic.
.
Try WW2 Online, FREE offline demo play.

To play other parts of map, after you pick the unit, shift the map to, say, Antwerp, click on Tank or Truck and (Enter).

If you pick airplane, make sure you pick and Airplane mark, ship with ship mark.
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  #7  
Old 03-06-2011, 11:02 PM
Avimimus Avimimus is offline
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Originally Posted by zauii View Post
In case you fail to get my point, here is why it will never happen.
I could think of a million more reasons but this should be obvious for anyone with a little understanding of game development and time..
Also this post is not meant to bash anyone, its a cool idea and all but its simply not practical or doable even for a large studio.

Maps / Quality:

If you expect a ground simulation on the scale of IL2 maps to work together with IL2 aka a multi simulation that includes tanks,
infantry and aircraft all detailed and simulated as much as possible you're asking for far too much.

First of all lets look at the quality, i assume you'd want RO2 type quality on the ground combat aka
the same quality that Maddox models the air combat but on the ground for both infantry and tanks.

Lets see, RO2 has 10 maps on launch and has been in development for 4-5 years .. they've incredibly detailed maps BUT
remind me again how large they are since they're so detailed? Oh yeh thats right each map is very small if you compare it
to a flight sim map which is a lot less detailed, meaning any kind of detailed world or large scale map would take forever to model in Unreal engine 3 quality.

Fun factor
Even if its a simulator the fun will be completly gone. If you model the distances in a flight sim for the infantry and vehicles on the ground we're talking hours of driving,
not to mention a very dull and undetailed ground world.. something that would be utterly boring from the 1st person perspective.

Secondly you would need thousands and thousands of players to even make it remotely interesting,
or hey lets play 32vs32 infantry combat on a map as large as Britain..

Hardware/Resources/Size
The game would be gignormous not only in size but it would take forever to develop, and what you might get out of a finished product of this type,
is not even close to worth the development cost.. thats without even mentioning how much a game like that would drain your system.

From Twi Devs

The TWI devs of RO2 made a good point, they clearly stated that they're going for realistic infantry and tank combat but to include planes would just be ridiculous..
you'd have them going in U-turns and the simulation scale of the planes would be far lower than the ground experience.. aka more like BF1942. And thats why
a proper & detailed ground + air simulation isn't even remotely close with todays technology.
All good points.

However, a situation where there is a close-air-support mission and the option of jumping into the seat of tanks which are about to fight over the same village that the mission targets is possible.

It would be much more like having a ground sim and a flight sim with very little interaction between the two (except at the level of the turn based campaign). It might still be fun though... (and the detailed physics etc. would provide another good engine).

The ground vehicle packs for FS-WWI were quite amusing...
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  #8  
Old 03-06-2011, 07:59 PM
Hunden Hunden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zauii View Post
Not a chance in hell unless you want BF1942 realism, theres a reason why RO2 does not do planes and a reason why IL2 does not do ground combat.
I think you are mistaken, I believe it will become exactly that, a full War simulator. Ground and naval forces. Don't get stuck in the past
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  #9  
Old 03-06-2011, 08:27 PM
zauii zauii is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunden View Post
I think you are mistaken, I believe it will become exactly that, a full War simulator. Ground and naval forces. Don't get stuck in the past
Just takes common sense as to why it won't happen, i've already listed some obvious once, sure if you wanna be optimistic about it then go for it, but it's not gonna happen.
Separate simulators definitely, but one gigant multi sim in RO2/IL2 quality lol keep dreaming jesus..

Last edited by zauii; 03-06-2011 at 08:29 PM.
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  #10  
Old 03-06-2011, 11:36 PM
Hunden Hunden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zauii View Post
Just takes common sense as to why it won't happen, i've already listed some obvious once, sure if you wanna be optimistic about it then go for it, but it's not gonna happen.
Separate simulators definitely, but one gigant multi sim in RO2/IL2 quality lol keep dreaming jesus..
They had to dream about going to the moon before they went, think bigger my friend.
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