I would like one question,why is not included in this part of the E4 Messer?

[Ltbear]

well....

The E4 should be in, it was used in numbers if we begin the why is not debate...well in October the F1 was used in limitet numbers etc....

With the 109 especialy the E4 it comes down to ammo. The "mineshot" original had impact detonator, but later series had delay...the first version exploded on the fusulage doing little damedge.

With the "shitzz" cannons on the E3 it was harder to hit, but it was regarded that 3 to 4 cannon rounds would be enough to bring down an enemy plane. Many RAF fighters who returned after being hit with cannon rounds was written of.

And if the RAF boys say give us the hispano, think twice. The version of the Hispano used doing BOB was a piece of junk. They jammed ALOT and was disregarded until a better version was made. When they worked i have to admit it was a great gun, but a 80% failure rate is playing lotto with your life.

I look so much forward to this game.

LTbear

[David603]

The Spitfire Ib is confirmed, so hopefully it will have a historical failure rate. Otherwise it will be the plane of choice for RAF pilots, since the Hispano is probably the best aircraft gun of WW2.

[Ltbear]

Originally Posted by David603

The Spitfire Ib is confirmed, so hopefully it will have a historical failure rate. Otherwise it will be the plane of choice for RAF pilots, since the Hispano is probably the best aircraft gun of WW2.

yupz or we end right back at the KI-84 style whining....

[Matt255]

Originally Posted by David603

The Spitfire Ib is confirmed, so hopefully it will have a historical failure rate. Otherwise it will be the plane of choice for RAF pilots, since the Hispano is probably the best aircraft gun of WW2.

Were has that been confirmed?

Based on screenshots, videos and reviews, these are the Spitfire variants:

2x MkI (one with two-pitch, one with CSP, most likely)
1x MkIa
1x MkIIa

I never read anything about a Ib ever, nor have i seen a screenshot of it. If there will be a 5th variant for the Spitfire and only the E-3 and E-3/B for the 109, it would be a bit suprising.

Thinking about it, there is no way Oleg would leave the E4 out of the initial release, it was the Luft's main battle wagon.

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

Thinking about it, there is no way Oleg would leave the E4 out of the initial release, it was the Luft's main battle wagon.

wrong, E1, certainly at the start.

Originally Posted by fruitbat

wrong, E1, certainly at the start.

Well the E4's were in production in 1939 so they would have appeared in numbers during the BOB, to leave this out of the game is very poor. The E3's were upgraded to E4's as well.

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

Well the E4's were in production in 1939 so they would have appeared in numbers during the BOB, to leave this out of the game is very poor. The E3's were upgraded to E4's as well.

i don't disagree.

but not having an E1 is a bigger hole in the german plane set if you look at the numbers fielded, since at least the only diff really between he E3 and E4, is the Mg FF vs Mg FF/M

Hooton in Eagle in Flames gives the percentage losses of 109s by subtype:

July
E1 - 44%
E3 - 30%
E4 - 20%

August
E1 - 40%
E3 - 8%
E4 - 52%

September
E1 - 38%
E3 - 1%
E4 - 61%

October
E1 - 36%
E3 - 2%
E4 - 62%

and from Kurfust,

I have some actual numbers. On 31 August 1940, fighter units (excluding JG 77) reported 375 E-1s, 125 E-3s, 339 E-4s and 32 E-7s on strength, indicating that most of the E-3s had been already converted to E-4 standard. JG 77 had around 100-125 aircraft with it, but for the rest of the units, its 75% cannon E-3/4/7, the rest are all MG E-1s. The E-1 and E-3 were produced parallel and in about equal numbers from the end of 1938, but by mid-1940, the production of the E-1 stopped, replaced by the E-4 and then the E-7.

and,

In Ulrich Steinhilper's book 'Spitfire on My Tail', he relates quite clearly that they, JG52 didn't get there first cannon armed 109's until mid september (10th iirc, fenrirs got my copy at the moment so can't check), and then only 2, which were hand me downs from another unit.

personally i am surprised that oleg didn't go with an E1 and E4, which would of made the most sense to me.

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

Well the E4's were in production in 1939 so they would have appeared in numbers during the BOB, to leave this out of the game is very poor. The E3's were upgraded to E4's as well.

You are wrong. Less than 30% were E4's by the time the BoB was ending.

JG2 had mostly E-1's throughout, only the likes of Galland had newer types.

[Biggs]

Originally Posted by David603

The Spitfire Ib is confirmed, so hopefully it will have a historical failure rate. Otherwise it will be the plane of choice for RAF pilots, since the Hispano is probably the best aircraft gun of WW2.

You mind telling us where you saw the mkIb "confirmed"... As of the other day only the mkI, mkIa and mkIIa are going to be in the game.

Im not sure what Luthier means by mkI and mkIa but there was never a mention of any cannoned mkI version.

I for one dont care if its not in the game. Only 19 squadron got them and after the problems with it, went right back to 8 mgs.